To think the Khelif issue is now raising more big questions in sport

[FishersGate]

Biological men should not be fighting women how is this even happening ?? Two 'women' failed eligibility tests by the IBA. Yet the IOC deem them suitable it's mind boggling

A woman with a DSD shouldn't have any particular unfair advantage over other women in sport. Because if you have the type of DSD that means your body produces large quantities of testosterone, you're a man with a DSD.

@GiddyMemberyou are totally missing the point - try reading a bit before posting.

No one is accusing Khelif of being trans - people are stating that he is biologically male because of you know - his XY/male chromosomes.

And what about the women he is beating up in the name of sport - not only are they likely to get hurt, they could be killed.

Khelif is a hero in Algeria because he is winning beating up women in the boxing ring. He is not at risk in his home country at all.

DSDs can be confusing for the layperson for sure.

But not for the medical specialists.

For pretty much all DSDs there is no ambiguity whether the individual is male or female. So in complicated cases, we refer to the expertise of the doctors.

Well only if the “natural range of women” includes people who are genetically men!

Of course he won't be locked up,he lives as the man he is when he's not punching women.

She has a uterus. She has been assigned female gender at birth
How else do you want to define her?

There are a wide range of DSDs. Some lead to women having high testosterone who were recognisibly female at birth.

Don’t know anything about this. Are they actually a male or a woman with high testosterone levels?

I ask because Algeria is not well known for its tolerant attitudes.

Like I say, taking the call around who is actually male or female is one for the experts in these disorders.

Evidence for this is where?

Also, these athletes (trans or DSD) not only have physical advantages - and very significant ones - but they will easily defeat a XX athlete. Female athletes who have trained and dedicated themselves to their sport might as well not bother. Not only will the 'male'ish ones beat them but they will also get funding and scholarships and loads of gold medals. They already get a tiny % anyway.

And my understanding is that it is theoretically - if vanishingly rare - to be a genetic male with a uterus. Though that's one serious DSD.

However this person's pathway would be set up to produce sperm not eggs.

She might not have a uterus but have a vagina, like Castor Semenya. Looked female at birth and raised as a woman. Still a woman as far as I'm concerned.

We don't know the details but presumably Khaleif looks female enough that she was given that sex category at birth. There are lots of factors that go into that.decision.

Boxing is quite dangerous, and uses weight and gender categories for a reason. If an athlete has the ability to seriously injure their competitor because of their physical disadvantage, the first athlete is clearly in the wrong category and should be moved. Safety should come first.

Individuals with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome have XY genetics but would have no ‘male’ advantage over a typical XX individual.

It is not as simple as just XX vs XY. Hormone receptors and hormone levels vary widely in DSDs too.

NHS link

1. What is your source for this "fact" please and
2. Even if this person does have a uterus if their chromosomes are XY then the person is Male with a DSD.

The IOC should go with a process and decision as the IBA did

I am surprised that you appear to have no sympathy for the Italian boxer who had her nose broken with one punch and withdrew after 46 seconds.
However Khelif is defined she/ he has the strength and physique of a man.
If these athletes are allowed to compete against natural women, women will realise that there is no point and give up their sport.

That's true. Women with CAH have a higher testosterone level. If they're well enough to compete then they'll need a medical exemption due to their need to take steroids to manage their condition, not for their androgen levels, but for their health.

Their testosterone levels won't be in the male range because they don't have testicles. Their higher testosterone comes from the adrenal glands like women with PCOS and they have XX chromosomes.

I'm not aware of any sporting body that bans women with XX chromosomes and any DSD from competing.

The litmus test is not having a uterus or a vagina.

The litmus test is whether the body is set up on a pathway to produce sperm or eggs.

To a trained professional in this field, this will not be a difficult call to make with the right testing.

Being raised as the opposite sex does not make you the opposite sex.

My view is that if you want to participate in sport, especially at a high level, it's important that division by sex is prioritised.

Currently athletes are tested for drugs. They accept this and accept they can be recalled at anytime to give a sample. Imo ALL athletes should have to undergo a cheek swab chromosome test to confirm their biological sex. No one else needs to be given this info but it would inform which category they fall into. I don't see how this is intrusive and I also believe that the majority of athletes put fairness at the front of sport. If everyone has it then there is no stigma.

Whilst this boxer isn't trans I do believe that the IOC are sticking to the 'F' in the passport line as it means they don't have to address the transwomen issue. If it continues then transwomen are being given a green light to take over in women's sport (except the o es of course that they would have no chance at winning).

So no, this isn't about trans and the 2 things are very different, but there will be linked consequences.

Exactly

This is not a transgender identity question - as with Caster Semenya, these competitors have probably lived their whole lives thinking they are female.

Have they though? Did they go through female puberty?

Yep. I would assume athletes like Castor and Khelif have this. I used to still consider women with that condition male but I think that's a bit harsh now. They grew up thinking they were XX and they probably had a vagina all along. There's more than one factor to sex determination.