To think the Khelif issue is now raising more big questions in sport

[FishersGate]

Biological men should not be fighting women how is this even happening ?? Two 'women' failed eligibility tests by the IBA. Yet the IOC deem them suitable it's mind boggling

What a compelling argument

That “one little Y” makes you male. I’m really struggling to understand how you can’t grasp something this simple.

Simple question. What is Kelif's biological sex?

AIUI they were treated as female at birth so presumably they're some sort of intersex.

However, what ever the semantics and the sex on their passport yesterday's events show that they've no place fighting people like the Italian who had to throw in the towel and was in reality subject to assualt by beating.

Boxing is corrupt and needs to be forced to get it's ducks in a row.

Today.

They just don't want to

Evidence please

"Elevated testosterone levels"

No. He's male within a normal testosterone range for a male.

Laurel hubbard is trans. She's not cis, you get that right? Her and Imane's cases are entirely seperate, linked only by the intense desire to police women's bodies

Laurel Hubbard is a male wrongly allowed to compete in the female category, like other males wrongly allowed to compete in the female category.

It’s the discrepancy between the IBA and IOC process that should be looked in to

If the IBA had a process that wasn’t just passport then use that

Having an F on your passport isn’t enough for this thread when we know men can be given that. Do you want to actually listen to what people are saying, or will you continue to be completely disingenuous?

No. Not according to the IBO.

Females are tested for testosterone if doping is suspected.

Imane was tested for eligibility as a woman and failed.
Imane was not born female. Inane was probably born with undeveloped external genitalia, which caused people to Assume Imane was female. That would have been Clarified at puberty.

The other possibility for a boy being raised as a girl would be gender stereotypes. Some families would prefer a girl over an effeminate boy. But the boxing suggests otherwise in this case.

It’s definitely more complex than that.
There are individuals that are XY but have androgen insensitivity- they produce testosterone but are unable to use it - they do not go through male puberty. They therefore do not have male performance advantage and are allowed in some Olympic categories to compete as women apparently. I’m not sure whether anyone with this DSD has actually competed however.

The amazing Olympic boxer Nicola Adams has issued a statement in which she has said that biological males like Khelif should not be in the ring with women.

I prefer to trust the judgement of Nicola Adams than some of the overnight experts on boxing on this thread.

As sorry as I am for the Italian female boxer who has had her dreams shattered, I am nevertheless pleased that yesterday's travesty occurred and the world was watching.

Every Imane Khelif, every Lia Thomas, every Isla Bryson brings us one step closer to the collapse of the already tottering edifice of TWAW.

Let's keep putting them in front of the cameras so the whole world can continue to see.

It's unfortunate what happened to him, but he would have known he was male for a while now . Since puberty and it's a choice to compete unfairly in women's sports . Effectively punching women when in fact you are a man.

1. The IBA are not discredited over the medical tests
2. The two male athletes tested by them could have contested the test, one didn't, the other did, and then dropped it
3. If you were XX, female in other words, you would have a) insisted on an appeal b) shown the world with your own test that you are XX. It's quite clear both are XY, unfortunately for them something went wrong in the pregnancy, and they were born with a disorder. A sexual disorder. Known as DSD. Differences of Sexual Development.
4. Because of the societies they were born in, the recommendation by doctors for males born 'incomplete' is to bring them up as females. But they remain, of course, male. This decision to bring them up female would have happened in places like the UK until relatively recently.
5. Both men know this, they will have been specifically targeted by coaches, as they know such men competing as women has an advantage over women. Also by our western standards both men are 'slight' very hard to make a big broad man 'pass'.
6. They are not Trans, that's quite clear. Whether Trans (males) or Males with DSD, they are all men and none of them should be allowed compete in women's sports.
7. We can have sympathy for their unfortunate development, that shouldn't get them a pass to compete in women's sports and the IOC is a misogynistic organisation who could not care less about fairness for women's sports.

This

You simply cannot be 'fair' to everyone in these situations, unfortunately someone has to lose out, but safety has to come before everything else.

I don't see how a person with complete androgen insensitivity could ever reach the level required to compete.

They are still male. So it is that simple.

They don’t meet the phenotype of men, but they are male.
Male with a health condition that leaves them looking effeminate. I have every sympathy and would happily accept them as female in every social context. And indeed would never know they were not female.

But they are not a special kind of woman, they are a special kind of man.

I mean why have we got to deny reality ?

Not sure how either of you can state this with such confidence.

The actual situation isn't known.

Chromosomes could be a variety of permutations. As could DSD conditions.

One thing's for sure - this athlete needs a medical assessment re suitability and the IOC have been negligent.

What’s not just ‘weirdo’ but sociopathic is to dismiss legitimate risks of serious injury until somebody dies. Listen to yourself. You seem happy to lose any contact with a sense of humanity as long as it’s in the service of centring the selfish interests of a man over women’s safety.

BUT IT SAYS F IN THEIR PASSPORTS!

🙃

We are living in clown world.

These two cases are quite specific, a case of dsd, they were "assigned" female at birth and have passports indicating female but at puberty they were obviously not developing as females ... not a case of trans in the same way.

The ioc rely on sports governing bodies and there is a specific issue with the boxing connected to the authorities being in Russia so they are only able to use basic ioc rules which is what does your passport say.

I'm not saying what is right or wrong btw just that it's not cut and dry, these people were raised female, even though subsequently screening indicates they have XY chromosomes. I would hope that they would do the right thing and pull out but I suppose they feel strongly that they are women