To think the Khelif issue is now raising more big questions in sport

[FishersGate]

Biological men should not be fighting women how is this even happening ?? Two 'women' failed eligibility tests by the IBA. Yet the IOC deem them suitable it's mind boggling

I'm not saying we're meant to believe one over the other, I'm saying I can see why people aren't fully accepting of the IBAs findings when they've been discredited and the findings came at a questionable timing.

I'm also not sure if the athlete is in a position to release the tests, I have absolutely no knowledge of that process or the testing.

I agree with the position that men should have no place if women's sport and am not going to bat for this athletes right to compete in any way.

However while I'm acknowledging my ignorance I'm left wondering how people who seem to be equally unaware of what the testing showed are talking definitively about details they couldn't know such as chromosome make up or details which appear to have been refuted by the very testing body who's authority they're relying on by claiming elevated testosterone and using these unknown or incorrect details to arrive at a definitive conclusion the athlete is biologically male.

That seems to be based on a post on telegram by the Russian official and then IBA president whereas the offish IBA statement does not reveal any specifics.

Personally I don't think it's the medal that matters, it's the punching down.

I bet there are lots of althletes with DSDs who, once they realise what a huge physical advantage they have and how unfair it would be, choose not to risk others' lives and safety. You know, true sportsmanship - it would be nice if there was a category for these competitors too, but no, the ones not giving a shit about anyone else take precedence.

There are many other reasons elite athletes have to retire from their sport, it sucks for the individual but for women's sports to exist and mean anything, the sex class category has to be preserved. For every athlete with male advantage you 'include' to be 'kind' there's a woman being EXCLUDED and who everyone being UNKIND to. Funny how that obvious truth is never mentioned - fairness to women isn't even a consideration apparently.

And all this rubbish about 'we don't know the details'. You really do just have to watch the video to see what is going on. It's so 1984 - “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

The IOC criteria was having 'F' in a passport.

I have no problem with the transman fighting in the womens boxing, I’m just holding TRAs to their own standards, where’s your outrage at a man being allowed to fight in womens boxing? Aren’t you horrified??

You’re all so transparent.

I don't understand 'raised as a girl'. I have a boy and a girl and have raised them the same, they played with 'girl' and 'boy' toys (if we're going to go with the modern terms for toys. It changed when they reached puberty and that is when questions would have definitely started to be asked about these people.

These males are cheating but most importantly they are putting women at risk. Frankly it's really very simple, have a test to prove you are XX. They won't they will they.

Anyway I'm looking forward to the fight for 3rd and 4th, then we'll see the real winner of this women's boxing category.

How about we scrap the whole men women competitions and instead have chromosomes competitions instead?

That should clear a whole of issues that we are having

You advocate for men hitting women, you attempt to gaslight women about objective, provable fact and then you call them insane.

You think you're a trailblazer?

Culture war suggests somebody acting on emotion not fact, and it’s pretty hypocritical of you to keep throwing the phrase around when it’s you who won’t answer a straight question for fear of exposing yourself.

The background to that decision is interesting. The IOC claimed all sorts of reasons but only made the decision after the IBA had decided to exclude two males from female competition. The IBA issued a lengthy statement about everything they did to comply with IOC demands but the IOC still weren't satisfied. I think this raises questions about the real reason the IOV decided to strip the IBA of recognition as an international governing body for boxing.

www.iba.sport/news/disgraceful-lack-of-respect-and-standards-shown-towards-boxing-by-the-ioc-as-ultimatum-given-in-response-to-3-1-million-olympic-prize-announcement

Semenya’s own interviews make it 100% clear that his only interest in being female is to compete unfairly in elite sport. It’s really untrue to say he lived his whole life believing himself to be female. He knows he’s male and has naturally fathered children. He’s a cheat. The boxers are cheats. It isn’t complicated, despite what the cheats and their supporters and exploiters would try to have us believe.

exactly! And a reiminder that in the UK there is no requirement to have a GRC to change the sex marker on your passport. A letter from a medical practitioner and a bill in your ‘female’ name is all it takes

@GiddyMember - you genuinely don't know what you are talking about. A family member was born with CAH. Indeterminate gender. Chromosomes determined she was Female. Even if her genitalia didn't necessarily align. That's how sex is determined medically.

Yep having just seen some more I think we should all promote the idea of xx, xplus. That gets over all the problems

The extensive reaching by some posters to try to knock out rationale, scientific argument is quite something. Skipping around facts, feinting with faux racist concerns and ducking the indisputable sucker punch that Y chromosomes = male.

All to try to defend a male for hitting a female.

Well yes, agree, this is the obvious conclusion to draw when he’s too craven to answer straight questions.

Yet the only person on this thread who thinks Khelif is trans is you. So you're the one putting Khelif in danger. 🤡

Chromosome events instead of men or women will get over potential trans ‘unfair’ calls as well

Giddy, you don’t seem to be making any comment about the transman in womens boxing?! What’s going on here, I thought you cared about this sort of thing? Come on, tell us what you think about it.

Our main concern is an innocent woman being killed in a ring by a person who, due to having a Y chromosome, should not be allowed in the ring. It should be fucking illegal and punishable.

If you can’t grasp that, seek genuine help.

Could you define 'woman' please?

Is anyone else enjoying all the prominent women who simply don't respond to attempts to shame them into silence anymore? JKR (wonderful woman) is the prime example but lots of others too. And acting like men in that they feel free to use the words that they wish, that describe what they see rather than being coerced into untruths constantly.

Whilst seeing Carini beaten up, and then having her breast grabbed, was frankly horrific, I am enjoying the way it is freeing women to speak on an equal footing to men.

Personally I'm over being kind to men, except the ones who demonstrate they are also kind to women and children. Kindness is a two way street. Anything that's not really isn't kind.