To be glad that #IStandWithAngelaCarini is trending no.1 in the UK on X (Twitter)

[AngeloMysterioso]

Angela Carini is the incredibly brave Italian boxer who had her Olympic dream shattered in less than a minute after being punched in the face by Imane Khelif, a male competitor who was disqualified from the women’s World Championships last year because his testosterone levels were too high.
Everyone should be saying her name. Over and over and over again.

As so many times before, JK Rowling sums it up succinctly. Addressing the IOC:

“Watch this, then explain why you’re OK with a man beating a woman in public for your entertainment … A young female boxer has just had everything she’s worked and trained for snatched away because you allowed a male to get in the ring with her. You’re a disgrace, your ‘safeguarding’ is a joke and Paris24 will be forever tarnished by the brutal injustice done to Carini.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/aug/01/andy-murrays-tearful-farewell-simone-biles-brilliance-and-boxing-controversy

I’d really wish they’d say what the test is. And if the IBA uphold it, why would the IOC differ in their criteria?

I agree. I doubt that we will find out. Just like the IBA cannot disclose the personal details such as whether there is a difference in sex development or not. There may be information out there self published or anecedotal, but we won't get this information unless there is other situations. It was only because of Semenya's court case evidence that we know what DSD Semenya has.

Which is why is not unreasonable to ask why exactly has the IOC done this. What is there to gain by having individuals with XY chromosomes fight females with XX chromosomes ? Make it make sense

This & the Queering Cermony. We also have the lad from Taiwan to come too which will awaken the world further.

The IBA will never support any boxing bouts between the genders, as the organization puts the safety and well-being of our athletes first. We are protecting our women and their rights to compete in the ring against equal rivals, and we will defend and support them in all instances; their hopes and dreams must never be taken away by organisations unwilling to do the right thing under difficult circumstances.

Pulled what I think is a very relevant quote from that article, thank you @Helleofabore

So there we have it "The IBA will never support any boxing bouts between the genders" (sex grr!) - these two boxers are not female athletes, they are male and should not be competing against members of the opposite sex.

As for the rest of the paragraph, brava to the IBA for taking such a clear stance for women (females for the avoidance of doubt) 👏👏👏👏

As has been said in the thread, the IOC has its own regulations that are general in application. They do not have specific boxing regulations about female boxing categories.

The IOC banned the IBA from being involved, they left this dangerous loophole because the IOC decided back in the late 90s to get rid of sex testing (cheek swab) due to pressure from activists who prioritised the emotional needs of male people with DSDs over the safety and fairness needs off female people. This too has been documented.

Then after the Tokyo games, the IOC declared that each sport should decide their own specific gender / DSD policies. Of course, they ignored the fact that they then did not adopt the IBA policy. This left the loophole.

There is plenty of this background out there for the reading on social media. And on this thread from earlier today.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5132396-a-woman-has-to-box-a-man-today-at-the-olympics-aibu-to-be-scared-for-her?page=1

Thank you for posting this. I've read it. Thank you IBA for standing up for common sense, not to mention women's safety and rights.

im sorry, but the amount of problems i have with this is genuinely upsetting me.

"it would have been more than apparent they weren't your standard female" - what is a "standard female"? aren't muscular, tall and strong females allowed to exist outside of DSD or transness?? My 6'3 female friend is already getting questions about when she transitioned, lol. Should my butch mates be considered non-standard??

"You'd think the men and boys would've seen to it very quickly if it had value" - because the only people working and trying to earn money will have been male?? You can extrapolate an entire view of their village life based off an idea you have of "islamic culture"?? Is this ubiquitous to every country??

its such a separate issue to what's being discussed here and not relevant, this whole post is so horrible - why are you picking apart her entire life?? Why do you assume she's lying??

It starts making sense with this paper.

ww.nature.com/articles/gim2000258.pdf?origin=ppub&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100045542&CJEVENT=f4d4c8630a0411ed831b01a80a1c0e11

From the article "At the time of testing, all female athletes at the Atlanta Games were offered a questionnaire written in both English and French asking whether in their view testing of females should be continued in future Olympics and whether or not they were made anxious by the testing procedure.18Of the 928 athletes who responded, 82% felt that testing should be continued and 94% indicated that they were not made anxious by the procedure. Forty-six athletes were made "anxious" by the testing requirements that preceded their competitive events. No males were found to masquerade as females, and all females who were found to be SRY positive competed. While a similar proportion of females failed the test as in previous Olympics (Table 2), it is noteworthy that on this occasion no false positive tests were found and no athlete was barred from competition.'

So, 82% of the women answered that they felt sex testing should continue when surveyed at the 1996 Olympics. This was ignored.

In 1996, 8 of the 'female' competitors were found to have a DSD. 7 were CAIS and 1 was 5ARD. This was a rate of 1 in 423 and hence you will see it said that CAIS athletes are found in higher proportions in the female sports categories than in society in general.

That rate is significantly higher than the general population.

Statement not article I need to go to sleep

Same exact thing as the threads on Steven van de Velde of Dutch volleyball rapist fame.

Why is it unacceptable to point out when a man does something wrong ?

So, following on from that report above, the changes made in the late 90s then allowed athletes such as Semenya to compete. Resulting in the 2016 result for the female 800 m where all medals were given to male athletes.

It was around this time too that the Olympic committee opened the events to male people with transgender identities. One of the arguments that was used by a philosophy lecturer at the time was that society treated those male people as 'female' and used female pronouns even, therefore it would be cruel to deny those male people entrance into female sports categories as it would 'other' them. And the testosterone suppression rules started to be discussed in response to things such as that 800 m result. Hence Semenya going to court.

Then came the studies that showed that male people who experienced any male puberty retained their advantages even with lowered testosterone. And there was significant pushback to allowing these male athletes to compete in female categories. The IOC said it would review the situation, but they showed very poor leadership and put the onus onto each of the sport's world organisations to decide the policies.

Hence we are in the current situation. The IOC banned the IBA and did not adopt the IBA regulations. Therefore, there were no specific female boxing reguations, or so I believe.

Incidentally, One of the arguments that was used by a philosophy lecturer at the time was that society treated those male people as 'female' and used female pronouns even, therefore it would be cruel to deny those male people entrance into female sports categories as it would 'other' them, is why I look in askance at anyone who claims there is no harm in using 'she' for male people.

Because the harm has already started on a collective level. The harm has been the leveraging by activists, who use people's kindness to make such changes to policy and laws that harm female people.

Thanks for explaining. The cynic in me finds it hard to accept that the IOC has accepted the swimming, athletics along with other sports rulings that no males can compete in female sports. Why won't it accept the boxing finding especially given the high stakes involving female safety?

far too sensible

Exactly. That would make sense, the woke lefties despise common sense!

Perhaps it was an oversight? Or more likely, they are advised by Madeleine Pape who is one of their diversity people who is fully ideologically driven on this particular issue.

archive.is/Htt3H

plus this one too

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/africa/54116114

Check out his instagram page before you shed too many tears.

he lives as a man outside of competition.

as does Caster.

and like Caster, looks down on women.

Standard female = XX chromosomes. A trainer would recognise male strength and physiology in a sport he typically trained men (XY) in. That goes for any sport.

I appreciate I went off on a tangent that's not necessarily relevant to this thread. This Olympics I've made a point to read up on the background of athletes from a wide variety of sports that I wouldn't usually follow. At least twenty-five and counting. I find their journey from youthful interest to elite sport fascinating, many of their stories are not straightforward and have an element of adversity or human interest which is compelling.

I assumed there would be an interesting background in this instance yet I'm finding it really hard to get any kind of picture of how their ability in the sport developed. Whether they were forced to relocate out of necessity. How difficult it was to source funding. Who was instrumental in helping them achieve. Who inspired them. All this detail comes up time and time again in biographies of other Olympians and elite sportspersons, many from small nations or at their first Olympics. I'm not talking Simone Biles level of notoriety.

I've heard at length today how impossible it would be for a transgender individual (which I don't think applies here), an individual with a DSD or an LGBTQ+ individual to be trained and put forward to compete by a strict islamic nation and governing body. That because of that they must be XX and everyone is being outrageous and nasty for questioning why they previously tested XY, didn't seek to contest it and that we must not question it. Told to accept that the flimsy IOC evidence that a passport is enough. My post was really querying how likely it was that a young woman or girl from what has been described as a rural province was trained in a combat sport in a conservative culture. It's not impossible but it seems extremely unlikely. I added a disclaimer that I'd expect them to relocate to a city to pursue their talent and better facilities. I'd feel the same way about a rural village in the UK, ultimately you'd need to travel to enhance your skills. Add in the cultural issues I outlined (which I don't consider xenophobic, unfortunately prescribed gender roles still exist in many conservative cultures across the world, islamic or otherwise). I'd like to know more about how this person overcame those obstacles. They're entitled to their privacy but since they have a platform as an international ambassador (UNICEF) I assumed it would've come up and that they'd use their story to inspire young people to take up the sport.

They did that in swimming but no trans signed up for it.

Many on the left hate this.

Actually it does.

But then that shows your ignorance on the subject.

Khelif was born with Swyer Syndrome. That's a person born with XY - as in male - chromosomes, but with a vagina and much smaller than usual uterus, rather than a penis and testes. They do not have ovaries and can only become pregnant via implantation of another woman's egg. They do not go through female puberty unless given testosterone blockers and female hormones, do not develop breasts for the same reason, and , do not menstruate.

To be clear, that's a woman who happens to have XY chromosomes, not a man who was born with a womb of sorts.

So should Khelif be allowed to box in the women's category? Abso-fcuking-lutely not. Not in a million years.
Look at the photo's of Khelif next to Carini, look at how they're built. To mansplain a stereotype, men's shoulders are three heads wide and women's shoulders are two heads wide - now look how broad Khelif is compared to her.
Look at their very different physiques, muscle tone, subcutaneous fat deposition.. see how Khelif looks to have some pretty well defined musculature while she looks much more.. soft? smooth? however you want to call it. Carini is not unfit or untrained in any way shape or form - she's an absolute fcuking beast. 108 bouts, 84 wins, four of which were by KO, none of which were TKO - she's punched her opponent hard enough to render them unconscious. Khelif doesn't look way more muscular than her because of "good" genetics, it's because of "XY male chromosome" genetics.

Did Khelif ask to be born the way Khelif is? No, of course not.
Is it fair to suggest Khelif shouldn't be allowed to box against other people who have vagi women? Yes, of course it is.
There are all kinds of medical conditions, birth anomalies, genetic reasons, biological reasons, etc why people can't box, Khelif's case is in no way special.
This isn't about kindness, compassion, understanding, and rebuilding the world through the magic of friendship and rainbows - it's about a fcuking bloke who thinks that just because he shit out in the genetics department that the world owes him the right to take part in unfair, dangerous fights and be showered in medals and praise because he's an inspiration to girls all over the world with his bravery and courage for hitting women....

Do you have a link with this information please ? Where has this been announced ?