Page 29 | A woman has to box a man today at the Olympics. AIBU to be scared for her?

ilovemoney · 2024-08-01T09:28:12+00:00

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/c4ngr93d9pgo Lin Yu-ting and Imane Khelif: Boxers cleared for Paris Olympics - BBC Sport]] They are both biological males. Its to IOC, International Olympic committee. There will be a protest and i know another female Irish boxer has pulled out but surely this cant stand. The women could be seriously injured.

Fetlocksblowininthewind · 01/08/2024 14:06

LordPercyPercy · 01/08/2024 13:36

This is an Algerian football team's response, they're totally fine with battering women apparently.

I'm eating lunch and that made me feel a bit sick.

They are mocking Angela Carini the absolute bastards! 😡

Helleofabore · 01/08/2024 14:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

"I have been ludicrously by censored by mumsnet HQ, so I’ll say it again, differently."

"This thread is populated by the usual individuals, driven by transphobia and transphobic ideologies , now coming after people with variations in sex characteristics. (These are the very same “gender criticals” who try to shut down any mention of people with variations in sex characteristics when they assert their monopoly on definitions of sex and gender on threads about trans issues. Tracks) perhaps next they will be coming after women with PCOS,"

Another great one.

yeah... you have been censored in your censure! Perhaps you could post with the guidelines and contribute something other than hyperbole.

NotBadConsidering · 01/08/2024 14:06

The worst thing about all this is that it’s going to happen again tomorrow with the other guy. Then again when Khelif fights in the QF. We have to witness sanctioned violence of men against women at least twice more.

UpThePankhurst · 01/08/2024 14:06

Tandora · 01/08/2024 14:00

Thank you but I’ll stay right here , on mumsnet, and continue to defend the rights and dignity of trans , sex variant and gender non conforming individuals , no matter how much vitriol you throw at me, because Lord only knows it is desperately needed.

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There is no 'dignity' for any man in battering a woman.

There is no 'right' for a man to batter a woman either.

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 14:07

FarmFlowers · 01/08/2024 13:55

I think you are a man.

Most woman who has ever been in fear of a man-and that's practically every woman in varying degrees- would say the shit you are saying is just that-shit.

*Most women have looked behind them at night or in a lonely place, if a man is walking behind them
*Most women take a look around if they find they are are alone on public transport, in case a man gets in
*Most women have been leered at or had sexual comments made towards them by men
*Most women have been worried when a man starts shouting
*Most women are concerned if a man bangs a wall, table or ornament in close proximity to them,
*Some women have felt a man's fist on them and it is terrifying.
*All women will have experienced at least one of these and I doubt the veracity of any woman who says she hasn't.

There are other examples but the one thing they all have in common is because men are stronger,more aggressive and can do damage to a woman.

That is why women are appalled to see the cocks at the Olympics sanction a man thumping a woman. That's why women understand and that's why women are disgusted.

That's why I think you are not a woman because if you were, you would have had some share in this this shared experience of being wary or frightened of a man-not because he might be the Brain of Britain and they're scared of his sharp words but simply because of his physical strength.

So stop posting this shit and go and lie down somewhere.

I imagine this will be deleted because even here, on a site for women, some women will be appalled at a defence of their own sex.

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Well thanks for that.

I am a woman. And no, not a trans woman, a real one, born and lived that way my whole life. But I can see if you're throwing that at me you're not going to listen.

And FYI, I have had all of those experiences, and worse, and as I have said already, I do carry around that fear of male violence with me everywhere I go.

It's actually something very important to me. I lost count MANY years ago of the number of times I've aged exactly that, to men who won't listen.

But using that line still doesn't mean that a featherweight trans woman is particularly more dangerous than an elite middleweight woman. It just doesn't.

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 01/08/2024 14:07

ThatAgileLimeCat · 01/08/2024 14:04

Do we actually know that they were born male? Daily Mail...not normally a bastion of fairness, is reporting more in line with them being intersex ie their chromosomes and/or hormones not aligning with their external organs at birth? I have seen no suggestion, other than on here, that they have changed gender from what they were assigned at birth.

They failed the test to be eligible compete with women two years in a row.

Bodeganights · 01/08/2024 14:07

LittleSparklyStar · 01/08/2024 10:32

Why are men being allowed to compete against women?!

I'm late to the thread, I've just seen the match. It was awful, the Italian woman tried and had to quit the match. She was so upset, it was terrible to see.

Anyway as to why, well we in fwr have been discussing this and more the last many many years, come on in and have a look around
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?page=23&reply=101057943

If you believe trans women are women, this is where it leads to, if you dont believe TWAW, apparently your a bigot.

Page 23 | Break it down for me? | Mumsnet

Hi all, I am fairly new to the discussion on the impact that transwomen are having on women generally and I want to more fully understand the issues (...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?page=23&reply=101057943

JusteanBiscuits · 01/08/2024 14:07

Kucinghitam · 01/08/2024 14:01

I do like that somebody on The Right Side of History is going really hard for "she asked for it" as a justification. It's very impressive, but doesn't demonstrate quite as much dedication to the cause as "unapproved language is worse than being a Southport rioter."

Edited

OK, because you can't understand I will try and spell it out clearer. And I did clarify this.

The Southport thugs all rocked up with their cider and special brew because of inflammatory language on the internet. I find some of the language used in here to be just as inflammatory as that.

OvaHere · 01/08/2024 14:08

Maestoso · 01/08/2024 14:03

Meanwhile, a yachting race has just been abandoned because the wind shifted and gave some competitors an unfair advantage. Could not make this up!

Quite. Also see the frequent fuss made about types of running shoes or the style and material of swimsuits that might give a competitor (meaning man) a half second advantage over another (man).

Yet they literally put men in the female competitions.

Between this and the convicted pedo rapist they allowed to compete I couldn't be more appalled with the IOC.

ThreeWordHarpy · 01/08/2024 14:08

ThatAgileLimeCat · 01/08/2024 14:04

Do we actually know that they were born male? Daily Mail...not normally a bastion of fairness, is reporting more in line with them being intersex ie their chromosomes and/or hormones not aligning with their external organs at birth? I have seen no suggestion, other than on here, that they have changed gender from what they were assigned at birth.

They are not female. It only leaves one other option.

www.iba.sport/news/statement-made-by-the-international-boxing-association-regarding-athletes-disqualifications-in-world-boxing-championships-2023/

TheKeatingFive · 01/08/2024 14:08

ThatAgileLimeCat · 01/08/2024 14:04

Do we actually know that they were born male? Daily Mail...not normally a bastion of fairness, is reporting more in line with them being intersex ie their chromosomes and/or hormones not aligning with their external organs at birth? I have seen no suggestion, other than on here, that they have changed gender from what they were assigned at birth.

They failed the tests for inclusion in women's completion as set by the IBA last year

KeirSpoutsTwaddle · 01/08/2024 14:09

@ThatAgileLimeCat women with naturally high testosterone do not fail.

Women with naturally high testosterone don’t come anywhere close to the levels that DSD athletes are required to reduce to, to be eligible for women’s sports.

Maireanto1 · 01/08/2024 14:09

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 14:07

Well thanks for that.

I am a woman. And no, not a trans woman, a real one, born and lived that way my whole life. But I can see if you're throwing that at me you're not going to listen.

And FYI, I have had all of those experiences, and worse, and as I have said already, I do carry around that fear of male violence with me everywhere I go.

It's actually something very important to me. I lost count MANY years ago of the number of times I've aged exactly that, to men who won't listen.

But using that line still doesn't mean that a featherweight trans woman is particularly more dangerous than an elite middleweight woman. It just doesn't.

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So to clarify @TheCosyNavyViper after that longwinded description are you attempting to say you are female?
After all a woman is a biologically born female.

Caerulea · 01/08/2024 14:09

EmpressOfTheThread · 01/08/2024 13:01

That's exactly what they do - in South Africa they scouted Caster Semenya, for example.

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It's no coincidence, either, that these countries tend to have pretty poor opinions of their women too 🤷🏼‍♀️. SA does not have a good record for treatment of women & lesbians (and that's a fucking understatement) - but winning at any cost garners national support.

HermioneWeasley · 01/08/2024 14:09

Tandora · 01/08/2024 14:00

Thank you but I’ll stay right here , on mumsnet, and continue to defend the rights and dignity of trans , sex variant and gender non conforming individuals , no matter how much vitriol you throw at me, because Lord only knows it is desperately needed.

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Nothing about the rights, SAFETY and dignity of women though. We see you

Kucinghitam · 01/08/2024 14:10

JusteanBiscuits · 01/08/2024 14:07

OK, because you can't understand I will try and spell it out clearer. And I did clarify this.

The Southport thugs all rocked up with their cider and special brew because of inflammatory language on the internet. I find some of the language used in here to be just as inflammatory as that.

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I heard you, loud and clear, thanks. But, I encourage you to keep saying it.

NImumconfused · 01/08/2024 14:10

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 13:32

Sure, speed is probably a factor too, and reach, as PP have said.

I was using that as an example.

The point is that both these two are at the lighter end of the range, so I don't think we need to be scared.

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This argument makes zero sense to me - are you seriously saying that Angela is not at any greater risk fighting a male simply because there are women in higher weight categories who might possibly punch harder than him??

The whole point of separating boxing into categories is to ensure that a lighter woman is never put up against a much bigger one, as it would be too unbalanced and the risk of serious injury would be too high. This is exactly the same reason she shouldn't be fighting a man whose biology gives him a substantial power, speed and reach advantage at the same weight as her.

Naunet · 01/08/2024 14:11

Tandora · 01/08/2024 14:05

Are you going to allow this @ mumsnet HQ ?I presume so…

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Why are you caping for male violence against women? Are you an incel?

vivainsomnia · 01/08/2024 14:11

Googling just reveals the same speculation as to whether they’re DSD or not. You seen certain though. Why? What’s your proof?
Well it's what the newspapers are reporting so I don't know why it's any more speculation than everything being reported that's taken at face value.

NonPlayerCharacter · 01/08/2024 14:11

Even my abusive father never claimed it was for rights and dignity when he was bashing a woman around. He would just say she deserved it for not doing as he said.

Could that be why there are so many insults aimed at women who maintain that boxing and other sports must be sex segregated? Bigots, hateful, fascists and all the rest of that rubbish? To try to make the case, without explicitly saying it, that women who don't accept what the male people say deserve violence?

YabaJaba · 01/08/2024 14:11

It's ridiculous- happy to be called a bigot - but your born a male you're always a male end of. There are and always have been two genders male and female. To watch a man punch a woman is wrong wrong wrong.

Gymnopedie · 01/08/2024 14:11

Tandora · 01/08/2024 14:00

Thank you but I’ll stay right here , on mumsnet, and continue to defend the rights and dignity of trans , sex variant and gender non conforming individuals , no matter how much vitriol you throw at me, because Lord only knows it is desperately needed.

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Fine. You do that. Meanwhile the rest of us will continue to defend the rights and dignity of women.

Helleofabore · 01/08/2024 14:12

Waitwhat23 · 01/08/2024 13:49

You mean the posters who have already defended women with PCOS on this very thread by pointing out that women with PCOS (a female endocrine disorder) produce higher than average testosterone levels within the female range and that even the highest level within the female range comes at a level considerably lower than the start of the male range?

I'm someone who has PCOS and you (Tandora) really need to have a word with yourself.

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It is remarkable Wait, but it actually is like a script with some people. They will use catastrophising arguments that are really just cognitive distortions as tactics to convince others.

it is pretty weak though considering what has been posted on this thread.

TamingofShrews · 01/08/2024 14:12

I’m so angry. I want to do something but hold no power at all. Can not imagine how she feels 😡

Thestreets · 01/08/2024 14:12

Helleofabore · 01/08/2024 14:03

"All this is is the usual angry transphobic mumsnet mob , the sex fascists, flat-terfers, now coming after people with variations in sex characteristics. Next they’ll be having a go at women with PCOS perhaps"

This is still a very remarkable post from Tandora.

It really does go to show when someone sees their overly emotionally manipulative tactics in arguing their point fail, they resort to this type of attack.

No, any transphobic posts on mumsnet is deleted. We have realised from the past though that you, and other posters, have your own personal definitions of transphobia that doesn't represent the general populations understanding of the word.

Sex fascists. Blimey the hyperbole here in this Tandora is remarkable. Are you really wanting readers to think that people who prioritise sex over gender (or in this case, emotional feelings) when sex does matter are sex fascists? Well. That is hilarious. But at the same time, I feel sad for someone who cannot cope with arguments without resorting to this extreme kind of labelling.

flat-terfers. Another hilarious one. Great combination of trying to portray those people who understand that sex cannot be changed and that there are only two sexes are that ones like people who believe that the earth is flat. I think from the majority of the UK's population's perspective, it is the other way around. And that one person's philosophical belief cannot change the material reality of established sex categories in humans.

now coming after people with variations in sex characteristics, well no. There is no 'coming after'. There is discussion around what is now a significant incident of a female athlete who has a broken nose within the very first seconds of a bout with a male athlete who should never have been allowed to compete. If you, personally, choose to make a person from a particular sub group of people unable to be criticised for their decisions, then that is great to know about you. It also means that you lack the knowledge of safeguarding principles that should be applied to female participation in sport. So, I think tandora this shows some ignorance on your part to attempt this very lazy emotionally manipulative attack.

PCOS. I think you will see posts on this thread that clearly state that female people with PCOS are most certainly not male people, nor do they have testosterone in the male range. So, this is just an exaggeration coming from your very own, very clear prejudice at this point.

Well done though. It was a great post for showing just how hyperbolic people can get when they realise that their position, based on philosophical belief, is really not defensible in the light of science and material reality. And when those who have tried to control the language and discussion around such issues have fuck all ability to discuss it rationally. Great job.

Fabulous post!