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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A woman has to box a man today at the Olympics. AIBU to be scared for her?

1000 replies

ilovemoney · 01/08/2024 10:28

Lin Yu-ting and Imane Khelif: Boxers cleared for Paris Olympics - BBC Sport

They are both biological males. Its to IOC, International Olympic committee. There will be a protest and i know another female Irish boxer has pulled out but surely this cant stand. The women could be seriously injured.

Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting

Lin Yu-ting and Imane Khelif: Boxers cleared for Paris Olympics

Two athletes are cleared to compete at the women's boxing at the Paris Olympics, having been disqualified from last year's World Championships for failing to meet eligibility criteria.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/c4ngr93d9pgo

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
audeloquipalam · 01/08/2024 13:25

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 13:23

Well I'm sure that kind of thing happens quite often in boxing, no matter what gender.

It's kind of the point, isn't it?

It seems like these two guys quite often lose...

I wondered when the "well they should just train harder" brigade would turn up

Kucinghitam · 01/08/2024 13:25

#OperationLetThemSpeak is doing great work for The Right Side of History again.

Scolding about hurty language being as bad as rioting in Southport. Just perfection.

SSpratt · 01/08/2024 13:26

The governing bodies are wholly responsible for this, they can DNA test competitors and anyone coming up as XY should not be competing against anyone XX. I have sympathy with people that have external genitalia that appears female but have DSD and are actually genetically male. This is a genuine quirk of nature, tbh there are probably past ‘women’ winners of Olympic medals with DSD when the confirmation of sex was a crude look between the legs. Now we can test DNA, we should.

TheBanffie · 01/08/2024 13:26

OneNewUser · 01/08/2024 13:23

There are so many assumptions made in this thread it’s ridiculous. ‘I think the gender test was probably a visual inspection and they have a penis’ right but you actually don’t know at all do you? Stop just making things up to defend calling them men when you DO NOT KNOW either way.

They are documented as having failed a gender test and being banned from competition as a result. What the test was hasn't been disclosed, but they failing means they are not female. The IOC appear to simply be taking their passport at face value and haven't done any assessment of biological sex.

Maireanto1 · 01/08/2024 13:26

LadyGrinningSoul8517 · 01/08/2024 13:13

Oh look, another thinly veiled transphobic post on Mumsnet.
How very original.

All masked as 'concern', of course.

Where is your evidence that the boxer is trans? Link it please before you go around calling us transphobic.
Also educate yourself about the subject before you post because neither boxer identifies as trans. @LadyGrinningSoul8517 very silly post. Link your evidence as to where the boxer is trans since you have called this post transphobic.

Longma · 01/08/2024 13:26

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. at the request of it's author.

Helleofabore · 01/08/2024 13:26

Gosh.

"All this is is the usual angry transphobic mumsnet mob , the sex fascists, flat-terfers, now coming after people with variations in sex characteristics. Next they’ll be having a go at women with PCOS perhaps."

Is this all you have? This completely hyperbolic attack?

No evidence, @Tandora? Just attack?

Good to know.

NotBadConsidering · 01/08/2024 13:27

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 13:23

Well I'm sure that kind of thing happens quite often in boxing, no matter what gender.

It's kind of the point, isn't it?

It seems like these two guys quite often lose...

Mediocre men who sometimes lose to women doesn’t make it safe for them to fight women, nor fair. The only reason they don’t have complete domination is because they aren’t very good. But Khelif is good enough and strong enough to make it a safety concern when only one punch is needed to cause serious injury.

If I had a motor in my bicycle and rode the Tour de France, I still wouldn’t win but it’s cheating.

Apolloneuro · 01/08/2024 13:28

HipTightOnions · 01/08/2024 13:24

coming after people with variations in sex characteristics.

No. Only the male ones who want to fight women.

Quite.

Listen toxic masculinity supporters, there’s nothing you can say to us that will make us feel as nearly heart broken as we feel for this poor Italian boxer.

Bring it on, mates. You can’t touch us.

StickItInTheFamilyAlbum · 01/08/2024 13:29

Kucinghitam · 01/08/2024 13:25

#OperationLetThemSpeak is doing great work for The Right Side of History again.

Scolding about hurty language being as bad as rioting in Southport. Just perfection.

But you appear to overlook that it's women who are protesting this in our high-pitched squeaky voices (TM Helen Joyce). Have you temporarily forgotten the Rules of Misogyny?

Rules of misogyny.

  1. Women are responsible for what men do.
  2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
  3. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
  4. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.
  5. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
  6. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.
  7. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
  8. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
  9. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.
10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad. 11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men. 12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry. 13. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves. 14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent. 15. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.
TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 13:29

Helleofabore · 01/08/2024 13:24

There are numerous issues with your post here.

Firstly, a male person's punch power in general is nearly double that of the average female person. This will mean that even at elite level, a male person's punch is hugely more powerful than a female person's punch at the same weight. There is also different leverage point in the a male skeleton that gives advantage. There is also a significant skeletal mass advantage - which feeds into that punch power too.

There is also a stability advantage thanks to q-angles compared to male people vs female people. Also V02max advantages. There is also likely to be a height advantage.

Then, and this is key, female people have a higher propensity for being injured. And the injuries are likely to be much more serious against any male person.

For instance, it is now documented that female people have weaker necks, and much more delicate brain fibres. Meaning that punch with that male power, causes significantly great damage to a female head than any female punch.

Female bones are more prone to breaking. So that male punch is more likely to break face bones.

The harms are known and they are very well documented by now.

That is the purpose of comparing sexed category to sexed category.

At the moment, the line is whether a male person has physical advantage or not. The IBA has made very clear that these two athletes are male with physical advantage over female athletes.

It simply doesn't matter whether they win or lose or whether they are in a particular weight category. If you want information about this, just ask. there are numerous posters on this thread that would only be too happy to put up the evidence.

That may be true, maybe their competitors are more likely to get injured than if they were fighting someone else in the same weight category.

But are they more likely to be as injured as someone fighting in the middleweight category, who weighs so much more?

As I say, you might think it's unfair, but I think it's OTT to be scared (any more than for boxing in general).

burnoutbabe · 01/08/2024 13:29

BBC news lunchtime edition just mentioned this story

They did say "one of 2 boxers who failed eligibility requirements" and no images shown so it's unclear to most what the issue is. But they are clearly trying to report what they can within their rules.

ProvincialLady2024 · 01/08/2024 13:29

PurpleSparkledPixie · 01/08/2024 10:32

ugh.... I really hope this fight gets cancelled. It's not fair, it's not safe. The poor woman will know she's going to get pulverised right from the first punch.

Sickening.

I don't.

I hope all the female competitors pull out. I know that's a massive sacrifice for them, but if all women pull out when this happens it will stop happening.

OuterSpaceCadet · 01/08/2024 13:30

teacher45646 · 01/08/2024 11:55

You can’t expect reason from the people in this thread. They have a very narrow definition of what a woman is and should be.

I mean, that's kind of the point of a definition, right? To say something is this one thing and is not all those other things.

As soon as you open the definition of "woman" it is rendered meaningless. Contrary to MRA thinking, women aren't some giant hole ready to be used in any way men think right.

I'd love to hear your definition of woman but I challenge you to do it without resorting to regressive stereotypes and appropriating the experience of people with disorders of sexual development. Go!

Helleofabore · 01/08/2024 13:30

JusteanBiscuits · 01/08/2024 13:22

To clarify. This is not a thread about transwomen as these are not transwomen

Do you have evidence of this? Because at this time, you seem to be asserting this when officially there is none.

Just that they have XY chromosomes and have been found through multiple tests to have an advantage over female athletes.

Naunet · 01/08/2024 13:30

Hey @Tandora whats your thoughts on the transman in the womens boxing then?

HipTightOnions · 01/08/2024 13:30

The BBC just reported briefly. The voiceover was pretty neutral but the film clip spoke 1000 words.

Beowulfa · 01/08/2024 13:31

The IOC could have knocked this on the head by ordering private chromosome tests for all boxers in the women's category, on the grounds of safety. It's a one-off cheek swab. Anyone who failed could announce separately an unfortunate career-ending injury.

What sane person could argue this was unfair?

MrTiddlesTheCat · 01/08/2024 13:31

Appalonia · 01/08/2024 11:46

Pp can watch it here

The IOC have blocked it on 'copyright infringement' grounds.

Helleofabore · 01/08/2024 13:32

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 13:29

That may be true, maybe their competitors are more likely to get injured than if they were fighting someone else in the same weight category.

But are they more likely to be as injured as someone fighting in the middleweight category, who weighs so much more?

As I say, you might think it's unfair, but I think it's OTT to be scared (any more than for boxing in general).

A female athlete reportedly had her nose broken within the first seconds of the bout.

And you are dismissing the reason why this happened and to minimise the fear collectively that female boxer's feel. You just seem very ill informed to be honest.

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 13:32

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. at the request of it's author.

Sure, speed is probably a factor too, and reach, as PP have said.

I was using that as an example.

The point is that both these two are at the lighter end of the range, so I don't think we need to be scared.

TheKeatingFive · 01/08/2024 13:33

burnoutbabe · 01/08/2024 13:29

BBC news lunchtime edition just mentioned this story

They did say "one of 2 boxers who failed eligibility requirements" and no images shown so it's unclear to most what the issue is. But they are clearly trying to report what they can within their rules.

The Telegraph and The Mail have been much more clear, so no, not buying it.

Devonbabs · 01/08/2024 13:33

I read threads like this and wonder what the actual fuck is wrong with some women. Women who are so keen to seem on trend that they happily support a woman being beaten up by a man. These women are traitors to womanhood, they are enablers of misogyny, enablers of VAWG and they try and shame others into agreeing with their deluded world.

TheKeatingFive · 01/08/2024 13:34

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 13:32

Sure, speed is probably a factor too, and reach, as PP have said.

I was using that as an example.

The point is that both these two are at the lighter end of the range, so I don't think we need to be scared.

Easy for you to say that, you aren't the one being offered up as collateral damage for the cause.

NotBadConsidering · 01/08/2024 13:34

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 13:32

Sure, speed is probably a factor too, and reach, as PP have said.

I was using that as an example.

The point is that both these two are at the lighter end of the range, so I don't think we need to be scared.

Why do you continue to say “we” don’t need to be scared when we have just witnessed evidence of the harm a mediocre man can do to a woman because of his biology? There is actual footage showing why “we” should be scared. It’s happened!

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