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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A woman has to box a man today at the Olympics. AIBU to be scared for her?

1000 replies

ilovemoney · 01/08/2024 10:28

Lin Yu-ting and Imane Khelif: Boxers cleared for Paris Olympics - BBC Sport

They are both biological males. Its to IOC, International Olympic committee. There will be a protest and i know another female Irish boxer has pulled out but surely this cant stand. The women could be seriously injured.

Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting

Lin Yu-ting and Imane Khelif: Boxers cleared for Paris Olympics

Two athletes are cleared to compete at the women's boxing at the Paris Olympics, having been disqualified from last year's World Championships for failing to meet eligibility criteria.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/c4ngr93d9pgo

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
Waitwhat23 · 01/08/2024 13:21

5475878237NC · 01/08/2024 13:12

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/articles/cw0yvln9z00o

So confused - it should just say trans athlete ruins chances of female in the women's boxing.

Edited: OK so now I'm even more confused having read the linked articles. DSD is obviously really complex but surely there should be an open category for DSD and trans athletes?

Edited

The Swimming World Cup tried that. No entrants.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/03/swimming-world-cup-category-for-transgender-athletes-cancelled-after-no-entries-received

snellgrove · 01/08/2024 13:21

I cannot be bothered to go back and find which apologists have cited the "but they are the same weight class" nonsense but:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7930971/

Gender differences are still evident when power per kg of body mass is considered [3,4] and the difference in absolute strength between genders appears more evident in the upper body compared to the lower body

Plus: The power gap between a male and female punch is 162%. So at the same weight, men can punch 2.6 times harder than females.

A Comparison between Male and Female Athletes in Relative Strength and Power Performances

The aim of this study was to compare male vs. female athletes in strength and power performance relative to body mass (BM) and lean body mass (LBM) and to investigate the relationships between muscle architecture and strength in both genders. Sixteen ....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7930971

stopthepigeonstopthepigeon · 01/08/2024 13:21

JusteanBiscuits · 01/08/2024 12:57

It is quite clear I am talking about the thugs who were egged on on social media to go and cause violence. And that is what is happening here. A bunch of people on in the internet using inflammatory language about them being cheats etc etc.

Except a biological male competing against a female IS cheating. Obviously.

YouJustDoYou · 01/08/2024 13:21

Poor woman sank to her knees and sobbed because she's trained for this for years, and for a man to come in and finish her in seconds is just awful, I saw her heart utterly break in defeat. He should be utterly ashamed...but of course he won't. Because for these men, all they care about is the money. Fucking cheats.

NotBadConsidering · 01/08/2024 13:21

LadyGrinningSoul8517 · 01/08/2024 13:13

Oh look, another thinly veiled transphobic post on Mumsnet.
How very original.

All masked as 'concern', of course.

Please post proof Khelif is trans and this is about a trans athlete.

For the umpteenth time, we don’t know if these boxers are trans or DSD. All we know is they’re men.

Naunet · 01/08/2024 13:22

JusteanBiscuits · 01/08/2024 13:15

I am speaking out against the language used by some posters here. Inflammatory, disgusting language.

I actually get off my arse and have made change and worked to make sport fairer - not just sat around posting on the internet. I have given a good chunk of my time to bring in guidelines that do make it fairer for women in the governing body for a sport.

What I am objecting to is the language used by too many of you in here. I doubt any of you have actually done anything other than bitch online. SO yes, this is an area I know plenty about, as I have actually tried to help fairness for women. But apparently I'm just a lefty troll. It is those attitudes that prevent change.

I am speaking out against the language used by some posters here. Inflammatory, disgusting language

Oh do stop being such a hypocrite, you just compared posters here to the Southport rioters, arguably the most offensive comment on this whole thread. 🙄

BezMills · 01/08/2024 13:22

The very foundation of sporting competition is fairness. As Carini said "Non e giusto" - it's not fair.

JusteanBiscuits · 01/08/2024 13:22

To clarify. This is not a thread about transwomen as these are not transwomen

Tandora · 01/08/2024 13:22

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CreationNat1on · 01/08/2024 13:22

If male athletes were subjected to the same unfairness and risk, there would have been more urgency and the regulations would have changed in advance of the games.

YouJustDoYou · 01/08/2024 13:22

LadyGrinningSoul8517 · 01/08/2024 13:13

Oh look, another thinly veiled transphobic post on Mumsnet.
How very original.

All masked as 'concern', of course.

ODFO

Maireanto1 · 01/08/2024 13:22

lifeinthelastlane · 01/08/2024 13:14

Seriously? You've popped up to defend this?

I think it's all the same poster to be honest..

audeloquipalam · 01/08/2024 13:22

JusteanBiscuits · 01/08/2024 13:15

I am speaking out against the language used by some posters here. Inflammatory, disgusting language.

I actually get off my arse and have made change and worked to make sport fairer - not just sat around posting on the internet. I have given a good chunk of my time to bring in guidelines that do make it fairer for women in the governing body for a sport.

What I am objecting to is the language used by too many of you in here. I doubt any of you have actually done anything other than bitch online. SO yes, this is an area I know plenty about, as I have actually tried to help fairness for women. But apparently I'm just a lefty troll. It is those attitudes that prevent change.

It's not what you said, it's the way that you said it.....? Language aside, I'd be interested to learn what these "IRL" actions you've taken are, bearing in mind you don't seem to be able to recognise the optics around a man breaking a womans nose

YouJustDoYou · 01/08/2024 13:22

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FY

VickyEadieofThigh · 01/08/2024 13:22

LadyGrinningSoul8517 · 01/08/2024 13:13

Oh look, another thinly veiled transphobic post on Mumsnet.
How very original.

All masked as 'concern', of course.

Who says these are trans-identifying men? We just know they are MEN.

But look, another misogynist defending men hurting women...

anyolddinosaur · 01/08/2024 13:23

If these men were raised believing they were women then it must have been devasting to discover that they were not. I would feel for them except that they know they are not female, they know that they have an unfair advantage and that there is a higher risk of serious injury for their opponents. And yet they go on cheating.

Calling them men is a fact, it is not insulting language.

The declining percentage of those who apparently think battering women is acceptable clearly represents misogynists.

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 13:23

NotBadConsidering · 01/08/2024 13:14

Yet a man who is in the same weight category was able to bust a woman’s nose with only the 2nd punch he landed because of his reach and greater muscle mass and punching power. And she’s not supposed to be worried about the remaining 8 minutes of the fight?

Well I'm sure that kind of thing happens quite often in boxing, no matter what gender.

It's kind of the point, isn't it?

It seems like these two guys quite often lose...

OneNewUser · 01/08/2024 13:23

There are so many assumptions made in this thread it’s ridiculous. ‘I think the gender test was probably a visual inspection and they have a penis’ right but you actually don’t know at all do you? Stop just making things up to defend calling them men when you DO NOT KNOW either way.

listsandbudgets · 01/08/2024 13:24

Poor woman ... 45 seconds and she had to give up... heart breaking for her and her team SadAngry

NotBadConsidering · 01/08/2024 13:24

JusteanBiscuits · 01/08/2024 13:20

Where does that show she was scouted for being DSD?!

How are you going finding that proof that these athletes “grew up believing they are female”? Still waiting…

YouJustDoYou · 01/08/2024 13:24

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People like you make me feel FUCKING SICK

Helleofabore · 01/08/2024 13:24

TheCosyNavyViper · 01/08/2024 13:08

Yes, exactly, as I said you might think they are stronger or faster than other people in the same weight category. But the strength advantage for example is relatively marginal compared to the higher weight categories.

So why is it reasonable to be scared for their opponents, but not the women in heavy categories?

There are numerous issues with your post here.

Firstly, a male person's punch power in general is nearly double that of the average female person. This will mean that even at elite level, a male person's punch is hugely more powerful than a female person's punch at the same weight. There is also different leverage point in the a male skeleton that gives advantage. There is also a significant skeletal mass advantage - which feeds into that punch power too.

There is also a stability advantage thanks to q-angles compared to male people vs female people. Also V02max advantages. There is also likely to be a height advantage.

Then, and this is key, female people have a higher propensity for being injured. And the injuries are likely to be much more serious against any male person.

For instance, it is now documented that female people have weaker necks, and much more delicate brain fibres. Meaning that punch with that male power, causes significantly great damage to a female head than any female punch.

Female bones are more prone to breaking. So that male punch is more likely to break face bones.

The harms are known and they are very well documented by now.

That is the purpose of comparing sexed category to sexed category.

At the moment, the line is whether a male person has physical advantage or not. The IBA has made very clear that these two athletes are male with physical advantage over female athletes.

It simply doesn't matter whether they win or lose or whether they are in a particular weight category. If you want information about this, just ask. there are numerous posters on this thread that would only be too happy to put up the evidence.

stopthepigeonstopthepigeon · 01/08/2024 13:24

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Yeah because a biological man fighting a biological female is fine. The biological female will inevitably lose but who cares right? 🤷‍♀️ Equality!

WickedSerious · 01/08/2024 13:24

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Oh gosh,we've never had anyone say this before.

HipTightOnions · 01/08/2024 13:24

coming after people with variations in sex characteristics.

No. Only the male ones who want to fight women.

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