shocked my best friend voted Reform

[clearmoon]

Long standing close friend came round for dinner and we were nattering away, and she just mentioned off hand in the conversation that she had voted Reform. i am really shocked. We don't discuss politics much. But I would have guessed lib dems or labour. I love her dearly. But I do wonder if I should think about her differently now, or just carry on as before

YANBU - She is not such a good person as I thought all these years
YABU-its all fine

I agree. French exceptionalism (as displayed last week at the Olympics) is an example of racism e.g. the cene on the seine, which laughed at the religion of many of the competing nations from Africa, E. Asia and S. America.
It is reasonable to love one's country and to wish its culture to continue. Only western nations are supposed to let their own culture (democracy, human rights, anti-slaving, workers' rights, regulation and opprobrium for corruption, along with a swathe of scientific and cultural achievements) be subsumed by others, and be assumed to be lesser. It is neither racist nor nationalistic to prefer incorrupt parliamentary government to dictatorship, for example, or to criticise countries that treat their people - often especially women - with contempt.

I’d be interested in your answer to something I’ve just seen. If a legal migrant who came to the UK from Africa / Pakistan / India etc voted Reform because they are seeing the values of the Country they chose to and live by be slowly destroyed as well as the out of control illegal immigration situation would you class them as Racist?

I have just seen this along the comments and would be interested in what you think of this question? If a legal migrant who came to the UK from Africa / Pakistan / India etc voted Reform because they are seeing the values of the Country they chose to and live by be slowly destroyed as well as the out of control illegal immigration situation would you class them as Racist?

This is bollocks sorry, reform aren't about whipping up hate. They're about making this country safer. Only a total idiot would think we are safe under labour where we are all getting stretched so thin financially we will have fuck all left soon so when crime does occur there's no solving it and no rectifying the damages caused by it. And the people causing it are also given pathetic sentences. You'd think very differently if something like that affected you.

They're about making this country safer

😂

Who did you vote for OP? Not that anyone’s vote is amyone else’s business. I’m sure whoever it was she has equal reason to be disappointed in you. We live in a democracy…well at least for now we do and it is everyone’s right to vote for who they like whatever you or I think. You know her and like her I assume so I don’t get why this would change your relationship. She just has clearly had enough of the alternatives and it was possibly even a protest vote. Labour was always going to get in as the Tories needed to go but frying pan to fire springs to mind in my opinion. Just out of interest, do you feel the same about those of a different religion or culture to yourself or are you more accepting?

Wow. You sound very intolerant.

OMG OP you voted labour ! how bloody awful of you, i would certainly have to dump you as a friend, i mean you must really dislike the elderly to have voted in such a way. That makes you an awful person that i can't possibly tolerate. Fucking crazy response don't you think OP

Neo-liberal capitalism requires a constant stream of labour to keep wages down. I totally disapprove of the NHS poaching workers from overseas. Both policies are Conservative.

Telling about who, though? Prefering how you do things is reasonable and many on these boards and elsewhere decry pushing Western values on other people. They do not decry the reverse, I notice.

That's dodgy ground. Anyone can be racist. But I see your point, which is a good one.

I’m not sure western countries’ cultures are being subsumed by others or are assumed to be lesser than other countries. Is there anything in particular you’re thinking of when you mention this?

The de-colonisers was who I thought of, constantly complaining that Western ideas such as the scientific method are imposed on other cultures. Really, do they think the star-gazers of Ancient Sumer did not use a scientific method of some description to record what they saw and what they inferred from it, or the astronomers of Medieval India do likewise?

It is dodgy ground but I’m not receiving a response. I am the daughter of an immigrant, my son is child of an immigrant, my husband is an immigrant (all legal btw). I would appreciate an answer but I don’t think I’m going to get one

Very telling about you.

They exist primarily for the purpose of whipping up hate. They seem to be doing quite a good job. But the majority of people in this country are decent, so the racists will always be a pathetic, tiny minority.

That's a slippery way of suggesting I am racist. My bi-racial DCs would find that interesting.

Anyone can be racist and your comment...oh, well...

I'll have a go. If voting Reform is racist - which is not proven - then someone who votes for them, whatever their ethnic origin, could also be called racist. But they may not be racist because they may be voting Reform for the reasons you stated earlier, that the country is losing its grip on the very things that made it a desirable place to emigrate to.

So, yes and no both.

Yes @VerySadCase as I said earlier in the thread I feel the same about people who voted Labour. They are usually the type who get all their information from the BBC/Guardian and so miss alot of news that these channels suppress. Labour's core vote is now middle class sheltered people who don't suffer from their policies which is why only 20% of the public voted for them (far less than brexit and Johnson and even less than Corbyn). We desperately need a part to represent the working class and non extreme middle class and I agree that Reform isn't necessarily it. My only positive is that Labour are anyway making a complete mess of things after a few weeks and maybe won't last 5 years especially as they have little support.

And that's fine, you can choose to feel however you feel. What's your point exactly?

What is my point is that you don't have the moral high ground as you seem to think, (and you're not more intelligent than others as you also seem to think), you support a divisive and imo extreme party who have little public support and will be disastrous for the country (but unlike reform have the power to enact their disastrous policies based entirely on their brand which was built by decent people in the past).

You can read what you like into my comment. I'm not sure why you're bringing your dc into the conversation?

All I'm saying is that I think it's telling that things that you consider to be patriotic are considered racist or nationalist by others. I find that quite a significant comment.

Yes you really do have a very apt name @VerySadCase

Totally agree.

I haven't actually said anything about my own political affiliations so you're making some assumptions here. But in any case, I still don't really see the point of your post.

You don't seem to understand that I don't actually care what you think about me. I don't mind if you judge my politics and I am perfectly happy for you to be friends with people who share your views - indeed, I would probably find it quite awkward if you wanted to be friends with me, so I would be relieved to find that you didn't want to know. I'm not in the slightest bit upset or offended if you think I'm wrong or stupid etc, because I don't need your validation or approval.

Do I think that those who vote for a racist party are morally lacking? Yes of course I do. If that makes me guilty of thinking that I have the moral high ground, then so be it. I genuinely don't think that all views are equally valid and I make no apology for that. We live in a democracy so I respect your right to hold views that I find disgusting, but I will not hold back from exercising my right to say what I think.