shocked my best friend voted Reform

[clearmoon]

Long standing close friend came round for dinner and we were nattering away, and she just mentioned off hand in the conversation that she had voted Reform. i am really shocked. We don't discuss politics much. But I would have guessed lib dems or labour. I love her dearly. But I do wonder if I should think about her differently now, or just carry on as before

YANBU - She is not such a good person as I thought all these years
YABU-its all fine

The only people I am close to who are right wing are family members as I love them, but honestly I wouldn’t be friends with them if we weren’t related. If your friend is a long term best friend, it’s a tricky one. I think I would have to ask curiously about their reasoning and then decide how close I wanted to stay to them based on their answer. In my mind, am happy to be acquaintances with people with all kinds of political views if they aren’t too extreme but I wouldn’t spend a lot of time with anyone who wasn’t left wing as we just wouldn’t see eye to eye.

I haven't rtft but I just wanted to say, friends are allowed differences of opinion. You can disagree with each other but still be friends.

Absolutely no one disagrees with this.

The debate is around where you draw the line.

Let's say a friend of yours tells you they are of the opinion that all UK mosques should be burnt to the ground, gay men should be castrated and women who have abortions should be in jail. You've eloquently challenged them but they are intransigent and loudly express their views in front of your children. How do feel about them going forward?

I agree. Politics has become very polarised with few people listening and insults being flung all over the place. Like you, I am very worried about where we could end up politically in a few years time.

Feels like whataboutery.

People are voting Reform because they are worried about our tiny island becoming even more overcrowded. Not because they want to burn mosques etc

@Northernnature Just want to say 100% agree with you.

I completely agree with this.

I know 2 people who voted Reform. One of them is quite a close friend and the other is more of an acquaintance. They both know I vote differently to them (I generally vote Labour or Lib Dem).

With the close friend, she and I often talk about why we vote the way we do and I find it interesting and helpful to hear her thoughts. We’re both quite respectful and tolerant when we have these discussions and I find her quite open-minded. I guess that’s why were good friends haha.

With the other person I know who voted Reform, he will talk about his political views uninvited, and begin what is essentially a monologue about it, unprompted, which I find annoying. He knows I vote differently to him and he hasn’t been very nice about it (calling me a ‘social justice warrior’ etc etc), which is unkind and tiresome. Thankfully he’s stopped doing that. He also comes across as quite closed-minded, as it’s very difficult to get a word in edgeways when he’s talking about politics. And if I (or anyone else) makes a point, he will say ‘oh yes, that’s a good point’ or something similar, but then ignore it entirely and just continue speaking.

I think it’s important and valuable - and an ingredient of a tolerant, respectful society - to have friends and acquaintances who think differently to us (whether politically or otherwise). But it’s very difficult to welcome that if those people come across as stubborn or closed-minded, like the person I mentioned above.

I think it can be very difficult to be open-minded and to stay that way, but that for me is the key. It’s about seeking out your similarities and things that connect you, which will also help you understand and appreciate the differences.

It is a cliche - and often very hard to do in practice - but I think it is very true.

Just to add, I also think it’s helpful to be friends with people who think differently to you as that can help you shape your own views and beliefs and to help you understand why you think the way you do.

Says you who called me 'ridiculously naive'.

I agree. I have some wonderful friends who think differently to me on all sorts of topics. I am happy for my views to be challenged and to think about different perspectives.

But I also have some red lines. It is not "helpful" to spend time with people who hold offensive and dangerous views. It is OK to choose not to be friends with people who you find morally reprehensible. I don't want friends that cause me to lose faith in humanity.

I agree. The acquaintance I mentioned in my post above has some pretty offensive views, so I’m not at all close to him.

Doesn't matter people are still allowed to vote for who they want. What you're doing now is justifying why the Op is right to dictate who people can and can't vote for. I know someone who voted reform who's family was quite literally killed in a terrorist attack. Do you think they aren't entitled to their own views and fears? They're not racists, but they've had an adverse experience that has meant they ultimately feel safer voting for Reform than they would other parties. Its not hard to realise that people have their own lives and won't always agree. That's okay. What isn't okay is telling people they can't vote for who they want or shaming them for it. I personally think our country will be a total crock of shit and a real second rate place to live under Labour but I don't shun the many people I know who voted for them as they obviously think its best.

Nobody is telling anyone who they can and can't vote for.

People are free to vote for whoever they like. That doesn't mean that others aren't free to criticise their choices or choose their friends.

In a democracy, as long as you stay within the law, you have an absolute right to say and think what you like, and to vote for who you choose. You do not have a right to demand that other people respect or accept those views.

I'm very sorry for the family that you mention who lost a loved one in a terrorist attack, but I think they are deeply misguided if they believe that voting for Reform - a party that exists to create division and whip up hate - is going to make them safer. I feel very sorry for them if they have been manipulated into making a decision that is directly counter to what you say that they want.

Well 4 million people voted Reform, me included, so you can’t assume we’re all terrible people??! We could equally be disappointed that other people voted Lib/Lab/Con but it’s up to each individual to choose.

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I'm very sorry for the family that you mention who lost a loved one in a terrorist attack, but I think they are deeply misguided if they believe that voting for Reform - a party that exists to create division and whip up hate - is going to make them safer. I feel very sorry for them if they have been manipulated into making a decision that is directly counter to what you say that they want.

unquote

How patronising, dismissive, unsympathetic, arrogant, sanctimonious and out of touch with reality.

Did you get to the end of my post? I didn’t vote Reform. I was expressing my views on how quite a few friends and family voted, one being a Muslim GP and what he and his family have experienced. The more info I am shown by him on the Reform manifesto and the manifesto of Labour (who I voted for and 3 weeks in are already being lied to about what was ‘promised’). What I am saying is, don’t be fooled by what you hear on TV and the MSM. They are owned by very powerful people who need a certain narrative to be pushed. We need to start to open our eyes and accept that all is not what it seems.

I think the people who opened the doors to the idiots protesting in Southport were T. Blair with his open immigration policies and Labour in general. They hated (hate?) working-class Britain and wanted to dilute what they saw as racist/nationalist beliefs, which most people call patriotism and preferring the way we do things to how other people do things elsewhere (no moral/ethical judgement implied). Brexit was about sovereignty, rather than immigration, which was listed as a reason for their vote by a minority of Brexiteers.

What’s an example of beliefs that some people would consider patriotic and others would consider racist/nationalist? There’s a massive difference between the two. One is founded on pride, love and respect and the other on arrogance, hatred and ignorance.

@AvrielFinch Of course everyone has a right but if you allow politics to dictate who you are friends with then that’s just doesn’t sit right. The friend would be by far better off not having a ‘friend’ like that in their life. Can I ask, if a legal migrant who came to the UK from Africa / Pakistan / India etc voted Reform because they are seeing the values of the Country they chose to and live by be slowly destroyed as well as the out of control illegal immigration situation would you class them as Racist?

Great post.

What has that got to do with Reform though? None of that was in their policies.

There's never been "open immigration policies".
In both the last two years net migration has been three times higher than in any year when Blair was PM.

Way more than 4 million people voted for the Nazis in the 1930s, so the fact that lots of people hold extreme views doesn't in itself make those views reasonable or acceptable.

I don't think everyone who voted Reform is terrible. I fully accept that some people lack the intelligence and critical thinking skills to understand what they are voting for. But those who do understand and vote for the far right anyway? Yes, I consider them to be completely lacking in moral values and a threat to our society.

And of course, you are entirely free to be disappointed that others don't share your far right views and choose instead to vote for mainstream political parties. You are free to choose not to be friends with people who oppose racism. That is your right within a democratic system.

It's very telling indeed that views which you consider to be patriotic are perceived by others as racist or nationalist.

It would definitely change how I saw someone and how I saw our friendship. Not saying I would fall out/cut ties but would definitely not feel the same about them, would probably create a bit of distance and watch what I said around them. FWIW I am pretty sure my dad voted Reform. I don't have him on my social media anymore, and limit contact and avoid conversations about politics for my own sanity. There's no way I will be able to change his mind, no point trying if I want to keep the door open for any sort of relationship.