shocked my best friend voted Reform

[clearmoon]

Long standing close friend came round for dinner and we were nattering away, and she just mentioned off hand in the conversation that she had voted Reform. i am really shocked. We don't discuss politics much. But I would have guessed lib dems or labour. I love her dearly. But I do wonder if I should think about her differently now, or just carry on as before

YANBU - She is not such a good person as I thought all these years
YABU-its all fine

If a friend of mine voted Reform because they liked their policies, they are a racist climate change denier and wouldn’t be my friend for much longer.

I don’t know what you’re talking about or what you’re referring to.

GE board-You won’t have trouble finding it.
Reform and their voters have been labelled bigots, racist, nazi and fascists.

Because if my friends are closet racists I’d rather know.

I still don’t know why you quoted me about Reform and Nazis when I said absolutely nothing about either of them.

I really think@AvrielFinch that you are misguided if you think Labour are the ones to vote for if you don't want to spread hatred and division. They do nothing but divide people with their putrid identity politics and smug holier than thou attitude. Do you really think we look like a united society? Do you really think Labour are going to unite us or divide us further?

They are making up accusations. A common tactic when you have no proper argument.

Labour are overseeing increased disorder and it has the potential to spiral out of control

@Northernnature our views are poles apart. And frankly I am fed up of your insults implying I am thick and that I do not understand Reform's policies. Frankly I have a better understanding than you.
It is a democratic country, so vote for who you want. But you have no business insulting other people because they do not want to be friends with anyone who votes for Reform.

I was baffled by your responses to me so I went back and read the quote history. My comment was a general one about gross exaggeration being a poor way of arguing, in any situation. I was adding to a poster’s comment about hyperbole. Nothing to do with Reform. A bit of a derail on my part, I suppose.

Yes, never recovered my friendship after I found out the same.

Respectfully OP, it's attitudes like this that are stoking the tensions we're seeing across the country at the moment.

These days, anyone deemed politically 'right of centre' is immediately shot down as a 'far-right extremist, racist, nazi!' It's lazy, unhelpful rhetoric that needs to stop!

Having concerns about mass immigration, overpopulation, pressure on public services and crime, doesn't automatically make you 'far-right' - and the constant suggestion it does is really starting to boil my piss!

When did we stop being able to talk to one another? OP you say she's your best friend. Presumably you have discussed the concerns she has that prompted her to vote the way she did? What advice did you give her to maybe help her see things differently?

Totally agree with this. I have a friend who voted reform. He is a professor and very well informed. He isn't racist. He feels very strongly about immigration amongst other things. I welcome the debate, and he has taught me a lot.

Yes you sound very sensible @Asherrain unlike some on this thread. The trouble is alot of people don't want to listen and are very close minded (mainly on the left). I do blame social media for the lost art of debate.

People having basic moral standards and boundaries around who they want to be friends with is categorically not what is making angry young men around the country throw bricks at mosques and set fire to police stations.

You seem to be struggling with some confusion around cause and effect. People are not suddenly inspired to start rioting and expressing racist views because someone describes them as "far right". People only describe them as "far right" because of the views that they are already expressing. And these most definitely are not just views that are a little right of centre.

There have been some really good journalistic investigations in the last day or two, looking at how the far right agitators have spread deliberate misinformation to whip up anger and incite riots. I suggest that you read some of it before making spurious claims about how the OP and people like her are somehow responsible for the thuggery because they don't want to hang out with racists.

And finally, no, having concerns about issues such as mass immigration, crime and pressure on public services absolutely does not make you racist. But expressing those concerns in racist ways, voting for racist parties and spreading deliberate disinformation to whip up hate absolutely does make you racist. And we have seen a lot of racists on MN in recent days.

He does not believe in climate change or workable economic policies either presumably?

Honestly this is just lazy stereotyping. I am not on the left, I am a centrist. I can also debate with the best of them. But most people on this thread promoting Reform are insulting others who disagree with them, making lazy assumptions, or do not understand Reforms policies. So please do not insult us by saying WE have lost the art of debate and discussion.

Hmm I think Boris with 80 seat majority may have been

That's the idea of debate - to listen to both sides of an argument, engage and hopefully learn something.

Do I agree with every opinion? No. Do I understand why people might hold certain opinions? Certainly.

I agree with @Northernnature that social media has led to people not being able to have a basic conversation. You see it all the time on here.

@Jumpingthruhoops and yet Reform supporters have insulted and mocked me and others on this thread. How does that contribute to debate and discussion?
Or is it okay for them to imply and say people are stupid?

You've spectacularly misunderstood my post. But thanks for your input.

It doesn't. I'm referring to (the seemingly few) people across the political spectrum who are able to hold a debate.

You've clearly encountered people who can't. I'm centrist and, in my experience, a LOT of those are on the left!

I never find it a good idea to discuss voting choices with family or friends. It’s just that….a choice. I’d never judge my relationship with anyone on their voting choices either, it just becomes judgemental. Best not to go there and respect others choices as you’d expect them to respect yours

Farage released a video Thursday "asking questions" speculating that Southport was an islamist terrorist attack. It stirred up racial hatred that has fueled far right violent thugs looting, attacking minorities & the police, and burning vehicles in various UK cities. Which is what he wanted, it's what his kind of politics thrives on. Many people were fooled into voting for the proto-fascist Reform 'party' (actually his private company) - and many others knew exactly what they were voting for. Not easy to tell who is in which category though.

I think people should look at why Reforms policies seemed appealing to people. Yes a portion are racists and the policies wouldn’t have mattered.

But why have so many people voted for them this time. Thats what the main parties need to be looking at.

So many people felt all the main parties were just lying so their policies didn’t matter. We all knew Labour would get in and say ‘we didn’t realise it was so bad, so now we have to do things we didn’t mention before’. I know so many people who couldn’t decide who to vote for because they knew it was all lies so they had nothing to base their vote on.

If the main parties actually paid attention, then they would learn from this election and look at why so many people voted reform. And people need to do it. Shouting ‘they must be thick’ or ‘they are definitely racist’ and ignoring them doesn’t work and makes the issue worse.

It’s How Trump got in, in America and it’s how he is probably going to get in again.

Labour have got an opportunity to address this between now and the next election. I don’t think they will and I think we will have years of close elections with reform increasing until the worst happens and they get in or one of the main parties wakes up. The next election concerns me greatly.