THe upper middle class favour immigration

[MeouwCat]

The upper middle class favour immigration because the alternative would be paying locals more and that would men them paying higher taxes to support the wage demands by care workers/Nurses/council workers etc.

Yeah. Right.

But how many are not working & have no intention of working? Are living on state benefits & accommodation without contributing? What are the actual figures?

No class has group think. Hth.

Why don't you raise this with your MP?

I agree with this. It wouldn’t make economic sense for nurseries or care homes to rely on recruiting migrants because it’s not really possible to count on migration as a sustainable source of employees. How do you know if you’ll get the employees you need from one source (e.g. by relying on recruiting migrants)? You can’t know for certain, so it wouldn’t be a good business model.

Yes, like JD Vance blaming the opioid crisis on its victims instead of the perpetrators.

Why don’t you look them up? Why do you think @Chrsytalchondalier has any more answers to this than you do?

I know enough about it being half Irish. There were still plenty of low paying jobs filled by English people at the time, the kind that people claim none will do today. And as your link shows, Irish immigrants willing to work for half the wage the English were paid, thereby driving down everyone’s wages caused bad feeling back then as well.

The government you nitwit.

last time I checked they make the laws around pay and minimum wage. They also make the laws around tax and what companies have to pay in tax.

If min wage increased we might see some change but… <checks notes>….France and Spain and Italy employment rates are utterly fucked thanks to higher minimum wage…

What the feck has this to do with the upper middle classes?

So blame the employers.

The Daily Mail and GB News use this very tactic. And what are they? Right wing. And who are they trying to appeal to? The working classes. And who do they always criticise or complain about? The so-called ‘upper middle class’ and ‘migrants’.

As many posters have already mentioned in this thread, the government and some media outlets (e.g. GB News and the Daily
Mail or the Telegraph, for instance) are trying to stir up tensions by pitting working class people against migrants or saying that ‘upper middle class’ people are the cause of all the UK’s problems. That’s easy to say and it also lets them - GB News, the Daily Mail - and the government off the hook.

Fine. Whoever is to blame, it’s not a great idea.

I blame big business and craven governments that allow exploitation to happen then get off the hook by making sure that the exploited are too busy pointing fingers at each other to point at them.

One with a bit of common sense.

@Acapulco12 Care homes do rely on immigrant workers to some extent, and there are also concerns about unscrupulous companies exploiting them, see this quote from BBC
'In February 2022, the government made care work a "shortage" occupation, allowing more people to be recruited from abroad to work in care homes or home care, aiming to tackle a record 164,000 social-care vacancies in England in 2021/22.
Vacancies have since fallen slightly, largely as a result of nearly 70,000 people arriving in the UK to work in care, according to Skills for Care, external.
Unseen's chief executive, Andrew Wallis, says the current approach has led to a rise in "labour abuse and exploitation" and is "a disaster" for many workers.
"Very vulnerable people are being cared for by very vulnerable people," he adds'
The article also highlights agencies which charge fees to bring the workers here, and then forcing them to work unpaid to clear their debt..

Tell it as it is. Why should your experience be sugar coated or covered up. It's your reality. It's time to have a mature discussion where debate cannot be quashed by those whose vocabulary is limited to name calling. "Racist", "bigot", "far right" are the most common slurs they like to aimlessly throw about as they have proved on this thread & on mumsnet. They also like to try & twist /rephrase what you post, I enjoy calling them out. Words matter.

Yes they think they are raising their social status & think it makes them appear intelligent🤣

But local people work in supermarkets and in zero contract hours low paid jobs. Why would paying £50k be necessary to get local people into care jobs?

Are they really? There are plenty of opportunities for local people to access education but, how are they going to take advantage of that if the government they vote for keeps making things difficult for them?

For example, we are struggling to staff the NHS because the Tories decided to cut students grants for health students so now we have to rely more on immigrants, trained at their own countries’ cost, to come and sort this mess.

We are poaching these qualified people to save us some money, stopping them coming won’t solve the problem, at least not while we have no way to guide and support younger students into these careers.

Universities were forced to become reliant on international students’ income when the Tories changed how universities were funded. These students are NOT taking UK students’ places, they are providing the income to make PG courses possible.

It is true that white young men form the most numerous disadvantaged group but that od only because there are far more white young men than non-white young men combined.

UK’s population is getting old and someone has to pay the taxes to finance their retirement and medical care BUT as someone put it: Your grandmother had 8 children, your mother 3, you only have 2 who would prefer having a dog instead of children and the dog is castrated so.., who pays for the pensions? Imported populations be doctors, nurses, farm workers, etc. AND the children the procreate.

How are children of disadvantaged families supposed to be supported in their education if the parents are working such long hours to afford the ever increasing cost of living? How when they can barely keep a roof over their heads?

You are ridiculous. These jobs don't pay more because the government doesn't subsidise childcare to the level that other European countries do. Blame the government. It has nothing to do with immigrants. Be grateful for the immigrants that have built up the UK over the years.

@EnchantedElf

Or maybe less educated people are more negatively affected by immigration?
Less educated people are more likely to believe the false rhetoric that their misery is as a result of immigrants

This too.

@MeouwCat I don't think you've quite understood that the end costs of higher wages gets passed on to the end user, you and me. Wages are part of the cost of doing business which a customer or if it something that the government provides, the taxpayer simply isn't willing to fund. Ironically when it costs too much, then those people in turn will leave the country for a better quality of life. So you'll then need to import people again. In an ideal world everyone would get paid loads (or things would cost less). Its the system that's been created. We could go back to living in villages and be self sustainable, but I don't think you'd want that either.

Have you just outed the name of one of your Facebook friends there @LBFseBrom ?@L@LBFseBrom???

The British values system is extremely twisted, as is the case in most capitalist societies. Salaries do not reflect the actual, real societal value of the job.

The invisible, undesirable supposedly unskilled "women's work" (and some incredibly important "male" jobs, like working on bin lorries, in abattoirs or with dangerous equipment) is badly paid, yet requires skill and dedication. The people who can do the gory, messy and smelly jobs well, with care and compassion for the humans they are helping, are worth their weight in gold.

A person might have multiple degrees and be on 100k in some useless self-serving corporate role that adds no value to society, but would still be absolutely clueless and completely unfit for many vital "unskilled" roles.

The bin man that says a cheery good morning, leaves my bin tidily and helps keep the streets free of vermin gets £23k a year, yet the incompetent council leader ("a local lad") who does absolutely fuck all except mess up vital services for thousands of people, is on 150k a year.

How about we redefine "skill", start valuing people for the human contribution they make and stop starting goady threads about immigration.