THe upper middle class favour immigration

[MeouwCat]

The upper middle class favour immigration because the alternative would be paying locals more and that would men them paying higher taxes to support the wage demands by care workers/Nurses/council workers etc.

I said it was sustainable, not that it isn't too many, 2m over 13 years gives time to build the infrastructure required, we decided not to do that, in an ideal world, we would be self sufficient in workers but we are not.

How many of those workers protesting could have actually been able to build an oil refinery? and its a few 100....

We ve over 135k vacancies in social care alone, 10s of 1000's of animals dumped because we don't have enough skilled abattoir workers, can't build enough houses because we don't have suitably trained construction workers & v long waiting lists in health mainly due to a lack of staff.

Instead of focusing on what Blair did or didn't do, how would you address these worker shortages without immigration?

Where have I said there shouldn't be any immigration. Of course those workers protesting had the skills to build an oil refinery, what planet are you on?

My husband worked in the construction industry for over 40 years, he worked on many building projects in his time, all with skilled workers, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, brick layers etc.

I will mention Blair because this is when it all snowballed, because Blair wanted more and more young people to go to university instead of learning a trade. The actions of both Labour and Conservative Governments have led us to where we are today.

@OneForTheToad I'm feeling even less cultural enrichment from the huge amounts of pure white British yobbos and chavs out there

@thefireplace ’We’ve over 135k vacancies in social care alone’. That’s because it’s a poorly paid job for the responsibility, with unsocial hours, and anyone doing that job can kiss goodbye to ever having a reasonable standard of living or ever buying a property. Importing poor people from abroad to live in poverty here is not the solution. Similarly with builders. The mass influx of EE builders put a lid on any pay increases for years. The government needs to train up more trades with colleges and skill centers. It’s building, not rocket science. Importing cheap people from abroad again is not the answer.

Two different things that don’t equate.

I think you may be confused, this is nothing to do with me.

I certainly have never attempted to slur all working people or anything like.

You tag me in at the top of your post, but none of it relates to me, I cannot tell if the first paragraph is part of your post as it seems to be (no quotes or other separation from the rest of the text). However I suspect it is something someone else accused you of, but am very unhappy that your post makes it appear I have said that.

Given you can presumably no longer edit it, please have it taken down as it totally misrepresents me.

Re your post, I am sure the police will be on top of it, hopefully the guilty protesters will be treated equally, like just stop oil vandals or those flying flags of terrorist organisations, glamorising mass murders, and making Jewish people afraid to walk the streets in our country. Just for example of some of the more persistent and disruptive ones. (also very real risk of delays to emergency services, which is very serious and can cause fatalities). There are of course many others. Obviously we cannot decry law breaking for one group and not another depending on our POV.

I often think when I see protests, especially the repeated large ones. I am not sure how democratic they really are for those that work long hours, or are not as able as others, or although have quite real and fair concerns are afraid to express them for fear that they don’t fit in with the current group think of the chattering classes, who freely think they can insult them and falsely accuse them of whatever (a bit like on here).

Also if we think about it, many of the most reported demos take place around London, which is much easier to take part in if you live in London, so those that do may be getting an undemocratic advantage, especially if they are not representative of the country as a whole. I suppose I am talking about the disadvantaged silent majority.

I can imagine people thinking are we paying for that mob to protest, especially where the protests are large and repeated, in fact some people seem to be professional protesters. The Labour left wing radical protest group, Momentum I didn’t realise are a private company. However people can work different shifts so even when the protests are during the day in the week it doesn’t always follow.

Immigration confused with refugees confused with asylum seekers.

The more affluent tend to come into contact with immigrants, legal and more in a professional career or at least higher educated than many. These also.imclude people who may have come as refugees or seeking asylum and been granted it, settled and adapted to UK culture.
The less affluent are more likely to live in places were asylum seekers and refugees have been dumped as local authorities and housing associations cash in on the opportunities to get grants for housing. The less affluent native UK people will be told "refugees are being housed here, accept them don't be racist or else... Threats of prosecution, or eviction etc are all sticks used to threaten. I witnessed the his on the isle of Bute in Scotland when a small number of Syrian refugees were housed in Rothesay. Some of the Syrians were not happy and moved away, some have stayed and made a success of things. The local media, council, housing associations and "refugee support groups" made damned sure any displeasure, resentment or questioning was jumped on.
The lack of clear explanation, listening to, and treating as adults which the less well off suffer is a good way to attract dissatisfaction.

@GrouachMacbeth

"The less affluent are more likely to live in places were asylum seekers and refugees have been dumped as local authorities and housing associations cash in on the opportunities to get grants for housing. The lack of clear explanation, listening to, and treating as adults which the less well off suffer is a good way to attract dissatisfaction."

This is so true. I wonder how many posters on here lived on a deprived council estate like I do. I wonder how their opinions would change if they did.

Ignorant racist

Spitting at your daughter and cat calling them, is that all the 'immigrants'?

I've reported this. Huge generalisation and very offensive.

@TickTockTickTok

perhaps you could tell us what “British British” means? And being second class in “their own country”

sounds a wee bit racist to me. A bit like you see some British people as more British than other British people.

not nice.

Gosh wouldn't it be dull if we were all the same with the same upbringing and backgrounds and heritage.

@MeouwCat who are you referring to as upper middle class? And how do you think peolle get to be upper middle clasa? I can tell you majority get there through sacrifice and hard work and yes for some, if will also be natural talent and skill.

What is your personal contribution to tax?

I think you're mixing up polling and statistics. Polling is done by samples but statistics just means collecting and analysing numerical data. A lot of statistics are absolute numbers. There are lots of ways of analysing if statistics are reliable.

I just read a book about statistics written by an Oxford maths professor. Eye opening how unreliable numbers can be.

Do they? my brother works for Aramco, he would say very different, a very different skill set to a brickie or chippie.

This refinery, at best, would have employed a few 100 workers.

Ok ... over 100k vacancies in the NHS, 40k of them nurses, skilled and relatively well paid, add in other AHP shortages, why aren't we capable of filling these, pre or post brexit?

As always, blame the immigrant, instead of looking closer to home.

Care work pays several times more than JSA for people without children, even when housing element added in, yet people would rather not work than go into the care sector.

Influx of EU workers held down wages? nope, what held down wages was less than 1% interest rates and inflation, coupled with business using the GFC as an excuse.
Employers aren't going to give above inflation wages as the norm.

Any trade worth his or her salt has done very well over the last 20 years or so.

Immigrants only work in the NHS and Care in roughly the same proportion as they make up the population. And as they are allowed to bring in dependents, they are creating a demand as well as satisfying it.

Immigrants create demands for services, which we then need more immigrants to fulfil. It is never ending. I don't know what illustrates this better than the fact we have had roughly 2.5 million people come into the country in the last two years, a million people left the country, leaving us with 1.5 million extra people.

1.5 million in 2 years! Yet we are still being told we need more immigration!

I certainly don’t blame the immigrants though. I blame the government for allowing big business to dictate our immigration policy. Businesses who can use a constant stream of immigrants to keep wages depressed, avoid having to train their own staff, and who pay none of the costs of immigration.

Nurses and Care Workers should be able to leverage the high demand for their services to lobby for better pay and conditions. This would also help to attract more British workers into this sector.

Instead, many NHS trusts have contracts with countries like Nigeria and the Philippines to employ a guaranteed numbers of nurses each year, which has left some of this year’s newly qualified nurses struggling to find a job.

This! Truth is, very few middle class/upper middle class know the first thing about how anything impacts the lives of working class people - and they have zero interest in understanding.
It's just easier to regard any white working class people who complain racist!

@Jumpingthruhoops you would be suprised how many 'middle class' folk actually come from working class communities originally , still have family there and gave a pretty good idea of how things are- plenty of working class areas in parts of the country aren't exactly wall to wall immigrants either- despite these thugs insistence on dragging immigration into every post they make or phone in they go on. Some are but plenty are not.

It's not all one way traffic either. The 'everyone down south is loaded parade and gets everything' my friend in the north midlands retired in her mid 50's , house paid for coz it cost bugger all compared to 'down south' and us on her 4th holiday this year- she's a nice person so good for her- but it's far removed from many I know in more expensive areas-

Tell that to your immigrant doctor, care worker, teacher or server. Stop scapegoating immigrants for your life's challenges and the failures of this government (Brexit, austerity, spaffing money in Rwanda).

If anything, immigrants create a brain drain when they leave their countries. I'm thinking of the Jamaican teachers that the DoE have recruited to work here (leaving Jamaican schools short) and the UK doctors that are leaving in droves to go to Australia (leaving our hospitals empty). Focus on the corruption and wastage of taxpayer's money (PPE scandal) and the lies told to the average hard working person. Look at the systemic failures here and lies told to you to convince people to bote for Brexit. The Government would much rather u focus on immigration though.

Very well said, mumedu, you are spot on.

Jumpingthruhoops, 'middle class' covers a very wide range of people, you cannot lump them together. A vast proportion of the middle class will know what goes on and all about working class life: teachers, nurses, doctors, social workers and many others. Please don't make sweeping statements.

'For your life's challenges' 😂😂
FYI I consider myself very fortunate actually; I had a very working class upbringing but have since done fairly well for myself and would definitely now consider myself/family to be in the middle class bracket.

However, I know a lot of people who - for a long time - have felt disenfranchised and like second class citizens in their own country. Regrettably we're seeing the impact of that across the country now.

Do I agree with this stance? Of course I bloody don't. Do I understand where it stems from? Absolutely.

So, respectfully, rather than spouting the same old guff that we've heard ad nauseum, you might want to at least empathise a little with where these people are coming from, rather than just eat up the 'far right' narrative the government and mainstream media is feeding you.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't come at me with your aggressive tone again. Thanks.