THe upper middle class favour immigration

[MeouwCat]

The upper middle class favour immigration because the alternative would be paying locals more and that would men them paying higher taxes to support the wage demands by care workers/Nurses/council workers etc.

They would if it paid enough. 20 quid an hour, get loads of applicants.

I always remember a comedian who said if immigrants who can't speak English and have no contacts are coming and stealing your jobs then you really must try harder. They're not stealing jobs, they're doing the jobs that no one else wants to do

Your wage expectations are completely unrealistic. Care workers don’t earn anywhere near £50k a year. I agree that they should be paid more than they are - their jobs are very important and very physically demanding. However, £50k is not a realistic salary expectation.

To put it into perspective, junior doctors, entry-level lawyers and engineers all train for many years to do their jobs and they don’t necessarily all start off earning £50k per year.

A nursery in our northwest coast town is offering £15 ph plus completely free childcare for level 3 staff and still can’t fill its vacancies locally.

That’s the government’s responsibility. The government needs to raise the salary. It’s got nothing to do with immigrants.

That sounds like "the 750,000 net migrants last year don't need any houses" either argument. Care to explain how?

Have you forgotten how in Covid times fields of fruit and veg were left rotting and restaurants and bars stayed closed because migrant workers couldn’t travel. Local workers wouldn’t do the job, there were places round here where farmers said to people ‘come and fill your boots’ because it was better than watching it all rot.

To work in a care home, you need to be compassionate and hard working. There is nothing in your post which suggests that you are either of those things.

Surely if you cant attract workers, you offer better conditions or you pay more.

For 50k a year, I could be though

I know 3 fully trained nursery staff with 20 years experience who have left this academic year.

The reason is that they didn't train to look after babies and under 2's. They don't want to spend their days changing nappies, spoonfeeding and cleaning up sick. They trained to teach and socialise pre-schoolers aged 3 and 4.

They hate the job now. Who wants to look after 3 babies each all day?

I find it sad that carers are compared to lavatory cleaners, or those other occupations. The people they care for are vulnerable human beings, deserving of compassion and respect, possibly frightened, confused and in pain. Not much like lavatories, though I realise you didn't mean it like that. To care well requires immense sensitivity and compassion and understanding of mental and physical health conditions. I think most care is not done well, precisely because the elderly, for instance, are regarded as things rather than people, which need to be 'done - rather like slaughtering chickens or cleaning lavatories. I would love to overhaul the care industry, professionalise it and increase the pay. Unfortunately, since it's run for private profit, I don't think it can easily be done.

And that in itself speaks volumes.

But the cost of living and NMW is the same for immigrants and those who were born here.

Pay them 50k a year and they will do it.

I am so sick of the anti immigrant rhetoric on here at the moment.

Do we have a bot problem?

Fuck sake another bunfight in the making

You don’t really understand life do you?

Are you just going to pay everyone £50k? That makes nursery places or care home beds 5 x more expensive. How are you going to pay for that?

Carers definitely deserve higher pay and real career progression opportunities.

Do you think it should be a graduate profession OP, like medicine or nursing?

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz5r2mk18k1o.amp

It’s nothing like the argument you’re mentioning. Your argument is that we’re accepting too many immigrants and we haven’t got enough housing for them. It’s true that we don’t have enough housing for immigrants - because we don’t have enough housing full stop.

The OP’s question is completely different and it isn’t really possible to answer. Unlike housing, new jobs are being created all the time. But we can’t ever really know which social class of people is competing with immigrants for jobs. That’s because so many different groups of immigrants come to the U.K. all the time, with different qualifications, skills and objectives. Some are extremely highly qualified, some come with a job offer already made to them and some haven’t yet got a job. And if the OP is referring to asylum seekers or refugees when they mention ‘immigrants’, those people certainly aren’t taking anyone’s jobs because they’re not allowed to work.

So I don’t really think we can say with any certainty that immigrants are taking anyone’s jobs - whether that’s the jobs of working class people or anyone else.

One way to test your theory @MeouwCat . Let's see where the liberal upper middle classes house all these groups of people. It's for certain they won't be in the Islington bubble or leafy green upper class suburbs will it.

Because they all seem to be dumped in buildings in my run down area.

I have absolutely no idea which class I'd fall into - one parent definitely upper class, the other definitely working class. I'm comfortable, but not rich. However, I know my entire family aren't against immigration - people should feel free to move wherever they want to, particularly if they're working and paying their way. Equally, for those fleeing from places of danger, how would you feel in their shoes? Would you rather you and your children die, or would you try to make a fresh start elsewhere. I know what I would do. At the end of the day, there are certain essential roles that some people seem to turn their noses up at, but others are happy to do. Yes, some jobs are woefully underpaid, but I disagree that this simply benefits those of upper middle class people. It's certainly something that should be addressed though.

The only bot problem we have is, we dont value the bot wipers enough ; the nursery nursers and the care home carers.

If it was a bot would it be able to spell properly and create a coherent argument? I don’t know much about it but I would imagine a bot would get the basics right.

I suspect it’s more of a twat problem than a bot problem. It’s as though someone’s put 50p in the dickheads so they’ve all come out to share their dickishness for a while.

. . . and where is a community nursery going to get the extra £360K per year to pay their 12 staff an extra £30K per year?