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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

THe upper middle class favour immigration

406 replies

MeouwCat · 31/07/2024 22:59

The upper middle class favour immigration because the alternative would be paying locals more and that would men them paying higher taxes to support the wage demands by care workers/Nurses/council workers etc.

OP posts:
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Mimififi · 01/08/2024 01:41

User8646382 · 01/08/2024 00:20

I think there are serious problems with illegal immigrants in this country - people who arrive without identification papers, where there is no way of knowing who they are or what crimes they may have committed. But I think on the whole legal immigration is beneficial.

That alone is a serious criminal offence. It is illegal to cross international borders with no passport or no identification papers. The U.K also requires citizens from many other countries to also hold a valid visa. We are also an island on the edge of Europe, how many countries were passed through en route here?

stormy4319trevor · 01/08/2024 01:44

HucklefinBerry · 01/08/2024 01:30

But local people work in supermarkets and in zero contract hours low paid jobs. Why would paying £50k be necessary to get local people into care jobs?

I expect helping a fragile, confused and frightened elderly person who doesn't know who or where they are, to eat, dress, wash or walk is somewhat harder than scanning barcodes. Perhaps not worth 50k, but clearly a somewhat more challenging role.

Mimififi · 01/08/2024 01:44

echt · 01/08/2024 00:39

Your post doesn't make sense. The couple say their child wouldn't go to state school, so they don't. So what?

Apologies private school.

Mimififi · 01/08/2024 01:46

echt · 01/08/2024 00:41

Why don't you raise this with your MP?

Because I won't get an answer like any other uncomfortable question I asked during the election campaign. My local one refused to answer "What is a woman" when I asked him?!

Bellsandthistle · 01/08/2024 01:48

Some of these posts are outrageous.
Having concerns against immigration does not make one racist. The effects of immigration do impact different sections of society differently. No wonder people are furious when they’re being portrayed as racist idiots.
I say this as an immigrant myself.

Safi7 · 01/08/2024 01:58

How do you define ‘the upper middle class’ OP? Who exactly are they?

Chrsytalchondalier · 01/08/2024 02:02

Bellsandthistle · 01/08/2024 01:48

Some of these posts are outrageous.
Having concerns against immigration does not make one racist. The effects of immigration do impact different sections of society differently. No wonder people are furious when they’re being portrayed as racist idiots.
I say this as an immigrant myself.

I agree with this. I think what most people are saying it's necessary and the pros outweigh the cons because of the situation we're in. It's ultimate poor planning for the future of every government, and now it needs to be thought of on a global scale which is practically impossible when you're all ultimately selfish and competing for the same resources.

urbanbuddha · 01/08/2024 02:03

VerySadCase · 31/07/2024 23:13

Nothing to do with class but it probably has a lot to do with education. More educated people are less likely to be racist.

This.

Frith2013 · 01/08/2024 02:06

This reply has been deleted

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Mimififi · 01/08/2024 02:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

"Thicko", that's a new one. Your lots vocabulary generally doesn't stretch beyond the usual slurs of "bigot, racist or far right".. An Oxford dictionary would help you all find some new slurs, I havn't seen "thickos" on any thread in the past 24 hours. Well done you trailblazer!

echt · 01/08/2024 02:18

Mimififi · 01/08/2024 02:13

"Thicko", that's a new one. Your lots vocabulary generally doesn't stretch beyond the usual slurs of "bigot, racist or far right".. An Oxford dictionary would help you all find some new slurs, I havn't seen "thickos" on any thread in the past 24 hours. Well done you trailblazer!

I notice you don't disagree with @Frith2013 's essential point though.

Mimififi · 01/08/2024 02:25

echt · 01/08/2024 02:18

I notice you don't disagree with @Frith2013 's essential point though.

I don't agree with anyone trying to silence debate by using slurs such a "thicko" in an attempt to quash discussion. As taxpayers & citizens we have every right to question what is happening. Calling other mumsnetters "thickos" is the height of immaturity.

Aussieland · 01/08/2024 02:56

MeouwCat · 31/07/2024 23:28

Pay them 50k a year and they will do it.

And yet paying junior doctors £50k a year was going to bring the country to its knees apparently…
I agree carers deserve way more. But there is also a huge need to have carers who are good at their job not just ones who are doing it for the money. Having said that compassion might be easier when you don’t have to stress about feeding your children! That has ZERO to do with immigration

Hagr1d · 01/08/2024 03:34

bossybloss · 31/07/2024 23:17

I am sickened and saddened that since Mondays atrocity in Southport the bigots have come out of the woodwork… oh yes very subtle and cleverly trying not to be overtly racist but it’s there all the same…the “I am not racist but ..”brigade.

Yes - I agree and I find it frightening.

My husband and I are British born, pay our taxes, work in the public sector and are law-abiding citizens, but we are both from an ethnic minority background and do not look "white". DH has always been cynical in the sense that he feels like we don't "belong" and are unwelcome in many parts of the UK. I have always said that this isn't the case anymore and that we can and should be able to visit anywhere in the country without fear of racism... Then stuff like the Southport riots happen and he says "See, I told you they hate us" 😔

It is alarming how many people online appear to express far-right views and makes me wonder who in my life is just pretending to not be racist. It's easy to hide behind a keyboard when you don't have to worry about how socially acceptable your views are. Maybe it will even get to the point where it will once again be considered socially acceptable to be openly racist. The rhetoric by certain politicians in recent times gives bigots permission to do this.

Hagr1d · 01/08/2024 03:43

MeouwCat · 01/08/2024 00:10

There is definitely a link. Though I am very upper class, but absolutely skint.

I am curious as to how a person could be "very upper class" but skint. Surely you own/have inherited land or some kind of property then? How can you then claim to be skint? What is your definition of "very upper class"? I would define that as the aristocracy?

mumedu · 01/08/2024 04:14

Bellsandthistle · 01/08/2024 01:48

Some of these posts are outrageous.
Having concerns against immigration does not make one racist. The effects of immigration do impact different sections of society differently. No wonder people are furious when they’re being portrayed as racist idiots.
I say this as an immigrant myself.

Is this Suella Braverman here?

tolerable · 01/08/2024 04:51

did you type that with your eyes tight shut and your dick in your hand?

SaltAndVinegar2 · 01/08/2024 06:20

User8646382 · 01/08/2024 00:25

I think you’re confused. Who said that nursery staff were primarily immigrants?

But to your other point, yes, basically. You can’t charge £200 a day for nursery fees. That’s £52,000 a year.

This is a bit of a silly argument, frankly. It seems to me that you’re not understanding how the real world operates.

The whole premise of childcare for working mums relies on low paid (primarily female) workers. If childcare workers were paid more, mums of young children would not afford to use it and would find other solutions. Childcare would be affordable by a smaller section of society. Unless it's massively subsidised by the tax payer.

Childcare is a bad example really, it is badly paid but other than that it's rewarding, sociable hours , a pleasant working environment, relatively speaking. Hence plenty of British people are willing to do it, particularly young girls without many financial demands. There are plenty of horrible places to work that are staffed mainly immigrants - abattoirs, chicken factories etc.

The reason British people don't want low paid unpleasant jobs is that benefits are relatively high while steady availability of low paid workers keeps wages low. If people had no choice but to work they would be willing to do these unpopular jobs. On the flip side, there would be more poverty.

A high tax but more equal society is the only answer to this problem but that is not popular in this country.

Also you have to realise that incompetent people exist in every society. They don't become immigrants though. Immigrants are always going to be more hardworking and aspirational than average.

SaltAndVinegar2 · 01/08/2024 06:29

Hagr1d · 01/08/2024 03:34

Yes - I agree and I find it frightening.

My husband and I are British born, pay our taxes, work in the public sector and are law-abiding citizens, but we are both from an ethnic minority background and do not look "white". DH has always been cynical in the sense that he feels like we don't "belong" and are unwelcome in many parts of the UK. I have always said that this isn't the case anymore and that we can and should be able to visit anywhere in the country without fear of racism... Then stuff like the Southport riots happen and he says "See, I told you they hate us" 😔

It is alarming how many people online appear to express far-right views and makes me wonder who in my life is just pretending to not be racist. It's easy to hide behind a keyboard when you don't have to worry about how socially acceptable your views are. Maybe it will even get to the point where it will once again be considered socially acceptable to be openly racist. The rhetoric by certain politicians in recent times gives bigots permission to do this.

Edited

The politicians most keen on extreme anti immigration policies seem to be from ethnic minorities. Suella, Priti, Rishi. I often think they wouldn't get away with their extreme views if they were white. Plenty of ethnic minorities and second generation immigrants are against further immigration. It doesn't equate to racism

It's a complicated issue.

The low paid workers coming from the EU that live in large numbers in working class areas have mostly been white in recent years anyway.

Right wing bigots just like any excuse to cause trouble.

I don't think most people are racist but unfortunately a minority shout louder than others especially online where they can hide

urbanbuddha · 01/08/2024 06:31

If childcare workers were paid more, mums of young children would not afford to use it and would find other solutions.

Other solutions? Do tell.

And most children have two parents - why do you think it’s all on the mums to find these “other solutions”?

Howtoeatanelephant · 01/08/2024 06:34

MeouwCat · 31/07/2024 23:11

Why is it racist to suggest that mass immigration shafts the working class?

Reported this post

Fluufer · 01/08/2024 06:42

Pay care workers as much as you like, it won't plug the gap. We're getting older and unhealthier. The number of people who need care is going to sky rocket about the number of native brits able and willing to do the work.
What we need is for people to take responsibility for their health and living situations, and a move back to closer generational living. Unless that happens, immigration is the only way we will keep people looked after.

SharonEllis · 01/08/2024 06:46

MeouwCat · 31/07/2024 23:24

Surely if you cant attract workers, you offer better conditions or you pay more.

Then you as a consumer have to be willing to pay more for goods and services. Who loses out most when prices go up 🤔

Simonjt · 01/08/2024 06:49

@MeouwCat As you yourself are upper class this means you would be subjected to higher classes and charges, despite you being unable to name these taxes and charges.

However, I take it you aren a hypocrite, so how much voluntary additional tax you pay per year? After all the person wanting this would surely be leading the way by paying the additional taxes they owe the country.

Howtoeatanelephant · 01/08/2024 06:53

MeouwCat · 01/08/2024 00:40

THeir other tactick is to accuse the British working class of being inherentaly lazy. I.E. Wont jump to when required

Tacktick???
You style yourself upper middle class yet cannot spell tactic?