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AIBU?

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Daily mail article, integration has failed in Germany. Aibu to agree with article?

483 replies

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 12:00

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=

Aibu to agree to an extent?

German refugee charity warns 'integration has FAILED'

In a bombshell interview, staff at a leading youth organisation in Germany have said the continuing influx of refugees means the system is at breaking point. They called for a 'freeze' in admissions.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline&ns_campaign=1490&ns_mchannel=rss

OP posts:
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EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 31/07/2024 15:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Hear hear.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 31/07/2024 15:10

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 15:00

I'm horrified, the events last night were shocking. It's scary the way it escalated so quickly. At the end of the day the riots last night have completely overshadowed the three little girls who were murdered & the others stabbed who are in a critical condition. Thoughts & prayers with them all & their families. I know one of the little girls mum was begging for calm last night😢

So you condemn the protests outside the mosque and acknowledge that they were motivated by racism and islamophobia?

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 15:10

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen
Speaking of Christmas markets
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67564172

I chose a BBC article this time to appese our lefties who would spontaneously combust if they clicked a Daily Mail link😁 this correlates with the article I posted, Germany again, male youth again...

OP posts:
JaneVtwaddle · 31/07/2024 15:11

Mrs benett of course they were?
But what has that got to do with the article from this charity in Germany?

TheCookieCrumblesThisWay · 31/07/2024 15:11

Dylanesque · 31/07/2024 15:01

See the phrase 'some (not all)'

Some Brits don't attend Carol Concerts. Shall we send them back somewhere because they don't value their own cultural heritage?

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 15:11

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 12:48

This is exactly my point. I have been to Germany many times & as I said my cousin is married there. It has changed dramatically in the past 6 years. My last visit to Munich was in the Feb half term, I was shocked at the visible amount of homeless, especially elderly homeless

Try Milton Keynes or Oxford some time.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 15:12

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 31/07/2024 15:10

So you condemn the protests outside the mosque and acknowledge that they were motivated by racism and islamophobia?

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-07-23/20-arrests-over-rioting-in-leeds

Of course I do. And I equally condemn the riots in Leeds a couple of weeks ago.

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 31/07/2024 15:13

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 15:12

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-07-23/20-arrests-over-rioting-in-leeds

Of course I do. And I equally condemn the riots in Leeds a couple of weeks ago.

Thank you.

tinydynamine · 31/07/2024 15:14

You're not unreasonable OP, but be prepared to be condemned as "far right" for doing so.

tinydynamine · 31/07/2024 15:15

I have lived in Germany for 30 years. It is definitely not the country it used to be but there are many reasons why that is the case.

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 15:18

tinydynamine · 31/07/2024 15:14

You're not unreasonable OP, but be prepared to be condemned as "far right" for doing so.

I love the left using the terms bigots, far right, racist etc.... Everytime they do those words lose power, become meaningless! Bless them!

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 31/07/2024 15:18

JaneVtwaddle · 31/07/2024 15:11

Mrs benett of course they were?
But what has that got to do with the article from this charity in Germany?

It has to do with the OP's tangent about immigration "working both ways" and her fears that she might not be able to practise her faith in other countries. I was wondering if she felt that Muslims would feel safe practising their religion here in the UK in light of last night's protests at the mosque, and whether she agreed that these islamophobic attacks might get in the way of Muslims feeling safe.

Dylanesque · 31/07/2024 15:19

TheCookieCrumblesThisWay · 31/07/2024 15:11

Some Brits don't attend Carol Concerts. Shall we send them back somewhere because they don't value their own cultural heritage?

You seem intent on nit-picking. Attendance is not compulsory, as you well know. I'm an atheist, but I can appreciate the part Christianity played in the development of art, music and literature. I wouldn't have deprived my daughter of the fun of carols and dressing up as a tinselled angel either

Everyoneesleistheproblem · 31/07/2024 15:20

TakeMe2Insanity · 31/07/2024 12:32

Well then your cousin is part of Germany’s problems!

What crap timing for this sudden concern both by the DM and you OP.

Immigration brings so much to a country. With the exception of maybe the Andaman Islands virtually all countries have ALWAYS had people moving to them. Immigration is part of all countries. Immigration is part of life. Countries don’t fail because of immigration, they fail because of poor decision makers in power.

Stop blaming people who aren’t white. Stop blaming muslims. Instead of just reading the DM read more widely, educate yourself (not EDL daily snippets) but actual books. Raise yourself.

Does it? Genuine question.

Large scale immigration is different to niche immigration based in say skills.

. It seems to work better three or four generations in, once local communities have adjusted l I can't think it's ever been great for either the immigrants or the country straight off the bat. Except for the wealthy of said country, who have a slightly more motivated workforce to exploit employ.

Piggywaspushed · 31/07/2024 15:21

Mimififi · 31/07/2024 15:12

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-07-23/20-arrests-over-rioting-in-leeds

Of course I do. And I equally condemn the riots in Leeds a couple of weeks ago.

And what do you think caused those? And who were the rioters? Wondering why you are bringing them, and the Olympics up.

JaneVtwaddle · 31/07/2024 15:22

Mrs benett no, I'm sure when bricks are thrown at a mosque people don't feel safe

However trying to compare being a practising Muslim here compared to being a practising Christian in a country ruled directly by religion and no democracy and poor human rights is ridiculous.

Tootjaskoot · 31/07/2024 15:23

IvyCardamom · 31/07/2024 15:04

Why is the left apparently so scared to confront the blatantly unjust, un-progressive, intolerant, misogynistic, abusive and in many cases, fascistic ideas and behaviours promoted within certain sections of society eg. Muslim fundamentalism? Not all of it comes from immigrants, there are also British-born fundamentalists & converts, their leftist enablers, and crossovers with other left wing, extremist, totalitarian cults such as Antifa & TRAs who obviously have many shared aims eg. misogyny, disregard for child safeguarding and a totalitarian desire to shut down peaceful, democratic free speech. People are sick of this hypocrisy on the left. You say you want a just world, but you seem extremely selective about who you think is worthy of justice & human rights.

I think that very very many on the left are more than happy to enter into those discussions. It is very clear that there are huge problems with oppressive behaviours within many parts of many societies. And anything that poses a threat to democracy needs to be addressed. But what the left generally aren’t prepared to tolerate is a pars pro toto approach towards immigrants, because as can be seen day in day out in the news, refusal to see nuance in questions of immigration leads to more xenophobia and hateful rhetoric. Do I think there are problems relating to oppression in some parts of the Islamic faith? Yes. Does that mean I’m going to trash a neighbourhood where there is a mosque because rumour said that an awful, unforgivable criminal happened to be an immigrant? No.

tinydynamine · 31/07/2024 15:24

I would add that Germany has also spent the last 30 years levelling up the former East Germany...a huge task! Just imagine if the UK had had to do something on that scale.

Laffydaffy · 31/07/2024 15:26

I am speaking as a non-German native English-speaker who lived in west Germany and am now in east Germany.

I cannot say for sure that integration has failed. I can only self-report what we have seen on the last decade since living here.

Firstly, the education system is fantastic. We have really no complaints. The Germans are strict but very, very thorough and encourage dedicated students from the first grade. Our two are learning their 3rd language in the 6th grade, as well as physics, had biology in the 5th, and then do latin and chemistry in the 7th. Really have nothing to complain about. However, the rest of the integration stuff has me worried.

Certainly, as you would expect in all big cities, Berlin and Munich seem very multicultural and therefore very tolerant. So many languages are spoken and no-one turns when they hear Arabic, Spanish or English in the supermarket, for example. However, DH and I have observed people being openly racist so many times, and there is a strong anti-Muslim sentiment, especially in the last few years. People I would expect to know better, as in, people in higher public positions and those who have been well-educated are often the most vocal.

In the east, there is even far less tolerance. The AFD, a far-right party that has some nazi links (see the eloquent Dr Alice Weidel)
and are strongly anti-immigration, pro German (they quote Deutschland Über Alles) have a real stronghold here. Our kids have told us since starting at the Gymnasium, there have been multiple swastikas erased from around the school and lots of talks about how it is not tolerated, and then both our kids are coming home repeating such racist stuff. If this is happening in the Gymnasium, where parents generally tend to be tertiary educated and should know better, what is happening at the other high-schools?

And I have also noticed recently, whenever my kids and I go shopping and we speak English instead of German, heads turn, people stare and we are treated, very often, brusquely and rudely, which has never happened before. I would imagine this to be just a taste to what obviously foreign people experience daily. It makes me wonder what is coming and whether we are safe.

So, as to whether immigration has failed, I cannot say, but this anti-foreigner sentiment is being left to simmer. The AFD freaks me out, no matter how much my family and I joke about it.

Dulra · 31/07/2024 15:27

@Mimififi Can I just check, are you blaming a failing education system, drug use, homelessness and a failed terrorist attack on a Christmas market all on the failure of integration?

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 31/07/2024 15:28

JaneVtwaddle · 31/07/2024 15:22

Mrs benett no, I'm sure when bricks are thrown at a mosque people don't feel safe

However trying to compare being a practising Muslim here compared to being a practising Christian in a country ruled directly by religion and no democracy and poor human rights is ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous? If people do not feel safe, then they do not feel safe.

Which countries are you talking about anyway? I assume that you're not referring to the list of 50 countries previously posted by the OP?

Werweisswohin · 31/07/2024 15:28

Saschka · 31/07/2024 13:54

Because OP is using the “Christians are the real victims” dogwhistle, and it is simply not true.

I don't think she is.

Sparklingnorthernlights · 31/07/2024 15:30

If multiculturalism is successful despite which ever party iis in power, we should have:-

Fairness
Growth and prosperity
Safety and harmony amongst all
Crime not increasing
Improvement of standard of living than previousdecades.

Please enlighten me where this is happening in the UK?

HappierTimesAhead · 31/07/2024 15:31

Some of the most appalling treatment of women and children has happened in the name of Catholicism.

There are practicing Muslims who find the oppression of women abhorrent and see it as nothing to do with their religion.

This is not about culture or religion or values.

It's about people who think they have a right to a particular piece or land just because they were born on it. The border around the land is entirely a man made construct. It is tribalism. Humanity at its most base.

tinydynamine · 31/07/2024 15:33

@Laffydaffy Heads turned 30 years ago in the far East of Germany when I spoke English with visiting family. To be fair though, back then it was more out of curiosity than hostility.

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