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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Junior doctors offered 22% pay rise

531 replies

PONZOL · 29/07/2024 13:18

How and where will the government get the money from I wonder?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjqe82lk5g5o

OP posts:
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6
Kiwirose · 30/07/2024 18:58

Great.

Now please can they do the same for nurses and other health care workers. here are shortages everywhere. As far as i know utility companies don't accept claps from nurses as a form of payment

mumsneedwine · 30/07/2024 19:00

@Kiwirose with you on that.

Doubledenim305 · 30/07/2024 19:05

Am not normally a labour fan but this is the right decision. They deserve every penny and more.
There is money for everything they want to have money for, don't u worry.
We fund wars abroad, big white train elephants, Westminster lunches and anything they want.
The worthy cause is to look after the drs who look after us in our moments of need.

Doubledenim305 · 30/07/2024 19:06

Kiwirose · 30/07/2024 18:58

Great.

Now please can they do the same for nurses and other health care workers. here are shortages everywhere. As far as i know utility companies don't accept claps from nurses as a form of payment

I always thought the clap was patronising..pay them to show appreciation.

Qanat53 · 30/07/2024 19:15

Everanewbie · 30/07/2024 15:16

If a surgeon can't afford to send a child to private school, then who the hell can? This isn't a thread about private schooling, but someone who dedicates 20 years to become a surgeon should receive a remuneration package that offers access to the 1% club. If not, what's the point in all that effort?

Original quote was they cannot afford “boarding” but can afford private school (and a nice farmhouse nearby, holidays, fast cars)

pinkstripeycat · 30/07/2024 19:15

GasPanic · 29/07/2024 13:27

Doubt that they will be able to fund much spending via debt.

Why do people think the markets reacted that badly to Liz Truss ?

I think junior doctors deserve more pay. The hours they are expected to do are silly.

However, I think that that pay should to some degree by pay frewezing people higher up the food chain. Consultants often get paid ridiculous amounts of money.

The problem is there is too much money at the end of the career and not enough at the beginning.

That reflects the skill and experience of the staff involved. Same as the police

laraitopbanana · 30/07/2024 19:20

That is just the kinda news I like to hear 🌺🌺

it was long…way tooooo long for them to get that. Well done!

they will cancel stuff they don’t think are as essential.

Qanat53 · 30/07/2024 19:21

Everanewbie · 30/07/2024 15:16

If a surgeon can't afford to send a child to private school, then who the hell can? This isn't a thread about private schooling, but someone who dedicates 20 years to become a surgeon should receive a remuneration package that offers access to the 1% club. If not, what's the point in all that effort?

It’s all about individual spending choices, the orig post was heavy on sarcasm. They are well paid for sure … just crying poor because they want more. In my opinion.
Just attended funeral for a hard working older woman waitresses, cleaned her whole life. She invested in rental flats, husband died young, no life insurance, she lived modestly, died at 85 and left £9million estate to charity.
She never complained about her salary.

Its all about choices.

pinkstripeycat · 30/07/2024 19:22

Shortkiwi · 29/07/2024 19:27

OonaStubbs · Today 17:50
The government always bends over backwards to appease doctors and it really pisses me off.

I've no problem with doctors being paid a bit more than normal workers but what they get is ridiculous. Most of them come from wealthy families to start with.

Think we have a troll or someone trying to bait for a reaction!!

No it’s just someone else’s opinion. Just because it’s not the same as yours it doesn’t mean they are a troll

Bernardo1 · 30/07/2024 19:27

Means testing pensioner winter fuel payments.
M.P.s still able to claim all their fuel bills and enjoy subsidised meals and drink at Westminster.
To be followed in Budget by means testing Attendance Allowance and Freedom pass for starters.
Capital gains tax and Inheritance tax increases also most likely.

browneyes77 · 30/07/2024 19:32

CheshireCat1 · 29/07/2024 16:37

Well, it’s a step in the right direction. Pensioners not on benefits won’t be getting winter fuel payments anymore, so that’s a good move too.

Good move?? 🤨

There will be millions of pensioners thrown into financial hardship because of that winter fuel payment being withdrawn. It’s a disgraceful move 😠

Just because many pensioners don’t qualify for benefits like pension credit, doesn’t mean they’re rolling in it. My elderly parents certainly aren’t!

The amount fuel bills have gone up, many rely on that fuel payment to help them because they’d struggle without it. It should be means tested yes so the richest pensioners who don’t actually need it don’t get it. But so many pensioners are going to be struggling with this move.

PippEmma · 30/07/2024 19:35

Pensioners and "Death Taxes", don't expect much of an inheritance! Anything I leave will be taxed.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 30/07/2024 19:41

@Everanewbie I think it depends which year you are in. Doctors who qualified in different years have very different financial prospects. The public only have a vague awareness of this.

Judetiff · 30/07/2024 19:42

From pensioners by the looks of it!

Proudtobeanortherner · 30/07/2024 20:09

Aussieland · 29/07/2024 13:20

Where do the government get their money to pay their other workers a living wage? There. Junior doctors have had a pay CUT of this amount and it’s getting them back to where they should have been. Maybe if your wages had been cut by a third compared to inflation for working in increasingly dangerous conditions then you wouldn’t be asking!

I doubt that there are many workers in the public sector who haven’t had the same or worse. In the past 14 years in my role I have NOT ONCE had a rise that even matches inflation. I really do not see why junior doctors are a special case. In years to come their earning potential is huge unlike the staff around them, without whom they could not function. By selfishly holding people to ransom they show complete disregard for others. IMHO it’s shameful that they are allowed to be doctors. All they are interested in is status; they care nothing for their patients.

PetuniaT · 30/07/2024 20:17

The move is now fully funded - by removing the Winter Fuel Payment from 10million pensioners.

mumsneedwine · 30/07/2024 20:28

My parents used to give their winter fuel allowance to age concern. They thought it was ridiculous.

Boysgrownbutstillathome · 30/07/2024 20:35

I was very sad to hear that some of it will come from getting rid of Winter fuel payment for most old age pensioners. This is not what I expected when I voted Labour. I know that some pensioners are wealthy and can easily afford their fuel bills, but most cannot and not all of these can claim Pension Credit. My husband is a pensioner (76) . I am not(56) but I am a carer for our adult son. He can't claim PC as I am still of working age. He feels the cold much more than me and needs the extra heat in the Winter. I support higher wages for junior doctors but never thought a Labour government would take away WFP.

BIossomtoes · 30/07/2024 20:57

Bernardo1 · 30/07/2024 19:27

Means testing pensioner winter fuel payments.
M.P.s still able to claim all their fuel bills and enjoy subsidised meals and drink at Westminster.
To be followed in Budget by means testing Attendance Allowance and Freedom pass for starters.
Capital gains tax and Inheritance tax increases also most likely.

The Freedom pass isn’t government funded and no mention has been made of attendance allowance. This is just scaremongering.

StringMittens · 30/07/2024 21:16

Needmoresleep · 29/07/2024 14:45

There is a bottleneck.

F1 & F2s are the ones most people think of as junior doctors. Long hours, low pay. Over the next 7 days DD has four days of normal shifts then three nights, then straight onto her new rotation.

More medical school places have opened up but specialist training has not been expanded, so a bottleneck. There is only one training place for every four young doctors. Even GP training is hugely competitive. So because they were working long hours in F2 but need to do well in exams to get a training place it became normal to take a third year, either in a locum position (not the paid per hour locum position but a one year temp contract) or medical school teaching as a clinical training fellow.

But.a lot of the temp positions are now filled by Physicians Associates and they are absorbing some of the specialist training resource as well.

DD is very aware that at the end of her F2 she may have no choice but to move to Australia or to change career. She is lucky in that she also has an engineering degree. However she would much rather be a doctor.

Making it worse F1/F2 positions have been randomised so you can be sent anywhere in the UK. (We know one girl with top marks from Oxbridge, who has been sent to a rural hospital in NI whilst her fiance is in London.) Then specialist training is so hard to get that you then have to move wherever you can to get it - and presumably you also had to move to get the post-F2 locum/CTF work. No point working hard, and being good at your job. The NHS don't care. Training positions are open to applicants across the world, and presumably we are still recruiting consultants from overseas, so British doctors are simply replaced.

Pay was the issue for the BMA, and perhaps those junior doctors with secure training places. Not for F1/F2s. To be honest DD is working such long hours that she takes home plenty and has no time to spend it.

She takes home plenty at @ £16 per hour? Where on earth does she live if that is the case? It must be in a very cheap part of the country.

Thistlewoman · 30/07/2024 21:23

PONZOL · 29/07/2024 13:18

How and where will the government get the money from I wonder?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjqe82lk5g5o

Well they've started with vulnerable pensioners. I'd like to see Rachel Reeves or Keir Starmer trying to manage on pension credit level income. And for those who don't know what that is....someone living on just the new state pension will now also lose up to £300 a year in Winter Fuel Payments because they are about £3 a week 'too well off'. meanwhile MPs get a heating allowance....they are hypocrites scumbags.

anon666 · 30/07/2024 21:28

Tories were completely in denial about this. It's been the biggest waste of human resources ever, refusing to address the previous pay cuts that means "junior" doctors were on strike. In reality that means every senior doctor who hasn't qualified as a consultant or GP.

This has been whilst the nhs has been on its knees after years of degradation by the govt, and trying to catch up after covid.

We need to get better at allocating resources in this country when a registrar earns less than a PA in the city. Public sector workers aren't "drainers", they run essential services.

BIossomtoes · 30/07/2024 21:37

Thistlewoman · 30/07/2024 21:23

Well they've started with vulnerable pensioners. I'd like to see Rachel Reeves or Keir Starmer trying to manage on pension credit level income. And for those who don't know what that is....someone living on just the new state pension will now also lose up to £300 a year in Winter Fuel Payments because they are about £3 a week 'too well off'. meanwhile MPs get a heating allowance....they are hypocrites scumbags.

Nobody getting the new state pension was getting £300, you had to be over 80 for that.Those of us on the new state pension were getting £150 and, as most of us also have occupational pensions, we’ll manage just fine. This place is nuts - one minute people are moaning about “millionaire pensioners”, the next it’s complaints about withdrawing a benefit that won’t make any real impact on most of us.

Ukrainebaby23 · 30/07/2024 22:02

Maybe it'll be funded by savings made on locum Dr's because a few more of them actually stay in work.?

Sunshine9218 · 30/07/2024 22:16

SauviGone · 29/07/2024 13:26

Having worked in the NHS I’d say they could make huge savings by sacking a lot of the useless admin staff who are only there to drain as much as they can from their employers.

In the team I worked in you could have sacked 50% of them and it would have had absolutely no negative effect on the running of the hospital whatsoever.

I remember completing 111 online, being told on the phone to go to a&e, then having to fill in a paper form when I got there of all the same stuff as online, meaning someone had to sit and type it up. Madness!!!!

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