I would swap with her in an instant

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I am a sort of clever woman, financially secure, good at what I do. I have lots of friends and family around me, despite being single.
Today I met a woman through a friend, ten years younger than me. She was upset at losing her job last month, she had tried but made a serious of errors and was eventually sacked.
Even as she cried, she looked beautiful. She told me about her various problems, not being able to pay rent, her debt, her self esteem.
And I thought how much I would love to be that pretty. She was distraught, but even with all that was going on, she was served first and efficiently in the bar. Men held doors and beamed at her. They crossed the street to walk closer to her.
I have never had that. And so what good is education, my job, my success. Because ultimately she'll end up ok. She is more likely to get a job and when she does people will praise what she does much more than they praise people who look like me.
Is that mad? That I would swap with her in an instant, even to be jobless and at risk of losing my flat, just to feel visible?
I'm sure men don't feel this way.

I've known a few beautiful people who are either not very nice or just terribly dull or really dim or have no sense of humour. Flat. One dimensional. Forgettable. You only have to watch a couple of series of Love Island to see that. Obviously on LI no-one is goes in looking less than 7 out of 10, but it's frequently not the most beautiful ones who are the most popular, on the Island itself or with the viewing public.

In the end, you are nothing without a decent personality even if you aren't especially clever. Being clever is an advantage, but people will forgive you for not being Brain of Britain if you are lovely and kind, wise, warm and funny. They won't forgive dull or spiteful or arrogant, no matter what you look like.

I've also known people who I found quite plain when I first met them, but after a bit of time in their company that all changed. Thinking of one woman in particular, she's not conventionally pretty, quite overweight, but she has a smile and a presence and a relentless positivity that lights up a room. She's witty and warm and funny but never too much. She's not loud, or fake or pantomime jolly, it's very natural and genuine. It's impossible to not feel happy when you are around her. She's like sunshine in human form and I find it hard to believe there can be a person on the planet who, if they knew her, would not feel the same. To me she's one of the most beautiful people ever and I can't even think about her without smiling. I even see her differently in physical sense now.

It's the same when you meet a bloke who you don't fancy at all at first, but once you get to know him and realise you are falling in love with fall in love his personality he starts to give you the uncontrollable fanny gallops.

Being beautiful is great, I imagine, but it's honestly not everything. It will get you so far, it will certainly open doors, literally and metaphorically, but in the end it probably won't save you from any of life's shit.

What people find off-putting is being around people who are relentlessly bitter or negative or pessimistic. Or people who have a persecution of victim complex. It's draining. So if my 'plain and fat' friend wanted to wallow and feel sorry for herself or constantly bang on about how everyone else was better looking than her then she'd be seen as that plain, fat woman first and foremost. As it is, no-one sees that past the first 20 minutes of knowing her. She has a really great job, legions of fans and a husband who adores her. I think there is a lesson there. There are certain things about ourselves we cannot change, but we can always choose to change our outlook on life.

I posted earlier about my two beautiful friends who don't enjoy the attention and hassle they get from men.
I'd also like to point out that neither of them have charmed lives because of their beauty. Both are single - I'm not saying it's bad to be single. It can be very good!! But the fact is neither of them want to be single and they've had very difficult love lives so far. They both wanted children and are now approaching 50 and it hasn't happened for them. One is unemployed and one is in a job she hates.
I really fail to see how being beautiful has given them wonderful lives. The only difference is they get a lot of unwanted attention from men. I absolutely wouldn't want to trade my life for theirs.
I think you're deluded OP.

What people find off-putting is being around people who are relentlessly bitter or negative or pessimistic. Or people who have a persecution of victim complex. It's draining. So if my 'plain and fat' friend wanted to wallow and feel sorry for herself or constantly bang on about how everyone else was better looking than her then she'd be seen as that plain, fat woman first and foremost. As it is, no-one sees that past the first 20 minutes of knowing her. She has a really great job, legions of fans and a husband who adores her. I think there is a lesson there. There are certain things about ourselves we cannot change, but we can always choose to change our outlook on life

Exactly.

The most depressing thing about this post is how desperate you sound for male validation.

If you need male validation, you'll be fishing in the sleazy end of the pool.

ultimately my friend still has the upper hand when it comes to dating. She can work on everything else, and it doesn't seem to matter too much to men either.
Does it not depress the shit out of you sometimes? Especially if you are single. When I was married I gave less of a shit. I'm not even desperate to date, which is a good job as in the three years I haven't had anyone, not one man, make any effort to talk to me. They just treat me like a man.

Dear God OP this is really awful now.

Who the fuck cares about getting lots of opportunities to date...if you still can't settle down or marriage doesn't work out? Which happens to lots of extremely beautiful women!! Look at someone who appears to have it all, like Beyonce for e.g. who was cheated on!

And pretty women can be lonely, end up single or settling too.

She can work on everything else,

Maybe. Maybe not!!

Sometimes you just don't have the qualities that make that possible. It can be bloody hard being pretty but having to fake confidence or competence when it doesn't come naturally and you end up in lots of dead ends, like losing your job. Or you find general life stuff more difficult to navigate than others.

You lack diversity of life experience to think in such binary ways about people who are objectively good looking.

👆👆👆👆

(edited to say that this are pointing fingers because I agree, not middle fingers because I don’t)

I was very beautiful as a young woman and quite frankly I didnt want the attention. It attracted the wrong kind of man every time. I had three unhappy marriages. I never found happiness with men. Its just as well I had brains too because Im mid 60s now, am fat and have lost my looks entirely as I didnt age well. But I have a successful career, a nice home and a lovelyvDS. No man in mylife. Im happier than Ive ever been in my life.
You can keep good looks. They brought me no joy at all.

ultimately my friend still has the upper hand when it comes to dating

A small part of life, OP.
Which apparently you don’t even care about:

I'm not even desperate to date, which is a good job as in the three years I haven't had anyone, not one man, make any effort to talk to me.

If, in fact, you would like to date, then if you put yourself out there (dating apps, making a conscious effort to meet people in places you’d likely find someone with similar interests etc) then you’ll find it’s not that bleak. But you have to take control not wait for it to happen.

Either be genuinely fine with being single, so this shit doesn’t matter, or admit to yourself you’d like a relationship and make steps to getting one. Don’t lie to yourself either way.

If I may,
I get the stuff about unwanted attention.
However, when I was younger, I was very attractive/interesting.
There were very few "proper" opportunities for young women then (former Communist country).
I made a very good life for myself, needles to say in this case it was the looks.
(And being a bit wiser perhaps than my counterparts by the very tough upbringing my generation endured).

You really need to stop seeing male attention as some kind of prize.

I’m voluntarily single now (in my sixties) and don’t plan on that ever changing.

When I compare my relationships to my long time friends (who were not as ‘pretty’ as me) they have all got long happy marriages whereas my relationships didn’t last and I have felt very envious (not in a toxic way) that their husbands see them as equals and partners).

I was not treated with the respect I felt I deserved and was very much the partner their friends fancied etc. Even in my most significant relationship that produced my children I was treated like a ‘visual’ rather than a person, he wanted me to keep my hair long, didn’t want me to gain weight etc.

It caused me a lot of hurt in my life because I’m a good partner, I have depth and was not in any way a Love Island type. I loved discussing various topics and reading (my ex would actually grab my book from me and fling it across the room because I was too ‘engrossed’ in it).

I honestly think it’s why I embrace singledom so much now, the idea of the male gaze or being in a relationship actually makes me feel physically ill, lol.

I work extremely hard at my gig type job. I am more than capable of rising through the ranks and probably understand better than most what is needed to be done beyond what is written down on the paperwork

However at 60+ and definitely not someone with good bone structure I know I am never even going to get a supervisor role because as the people they promote are all good looking and young and judging by what I am asked lack a basic understanding of the role

I don't want to be unkind, and I am saying this as a fellow middle aged woman with no discernable bone structure at any age. The gig economy is no place to be working when you are 60. There are jobs that are great when you are 20 (regardless of looks) but you need to plan something different for when you are older, because yes, by the time you are 60 people judge you on where you are rather than your future potential. I would get nowhere in the kind of job you are talking about, but those beautiful young women would not get my job either. Hopefully they have a plan that will take them into a more secure work environment as they get older.

It’s happened to me before - or on train platforms. When I was 20 years younger and slightly attractive (never model like, just more vulnerable).

Always creepy and freaky - in fact I avoided walking down the same road for a while after. So why would anyone like this - really weird

So if my 'plain and fat' friend wanted to wallow and feel sorry for herself or constantly bang on about how everyone else was better looking than her then she'd be seen as that plain, fat woman first and foremost

Of course, your plain and fat friend is not allowed to be miserable. She has to conform to the ''jolly fat person" stereotype to be acceptable to her peers.

Don't you realise how absolutely sick we plain, fat people are of this sort of shit?

You won't listen to me, though, because I'm too fat and plain to be permitted to complain or be unhappy.

Perhaps depends on the area and type of man then

as I said - in certain parts of inner London it’s happened to me and my friends and we were just normal teens

With beauty also come a lot of jealousy and hatred towards you as you are illustrating right now. People have much more going on than just their looks. I’ve had this attitude towards me and my god if you knew me you would wonder how I am still standing as my life has been far from a fairytale.

You're wasting your time comparing yourself to other people. You are you. You will always be you, and you will ONLY be you. It's a complete waste of time and energy to wish otherwise.

She's like sunshine in human form and I find it hard to believe there can be a person on the planet who, if they knew her, would not feel the same. To me she's one of the most beautiful people ever and I can't even think about her without smiling. I even see her differently in physical sense now

It's the same when you meet a bloke who you don't fancy at all at first, but once you get to know him and realise you are falling in love with fall in love his personality he starts to give you the uncontrollable fanny gallops

God yes. I've met guys who were really nothing to write home about in terms of looks and I wouldnt have looked twice at them in the street but within 20 mins of chatting with them I wanted to rip their clothes off. They were engaging, had great social skills, gave me their full attention, were charming, eloquent, witty, kind and even the way they moved was sexy. I also know women who are like human sunshine and not one of them looked like Giselle or a Victoria secrets model.

Noone is denying that looks can get you initial attention but what is the point of mere superficial attention if it never evolves into anything genuine or serious? Noone sits alone at home sad and single thinking "ah well at least two guys crossed the street to follow me home that one time" - hardly much comfort is it?

This is exactly me!

WTF have I just read> ???

I'm struggling with your post as it seems so obtuse. Yes she's beautiful (and yes many people will admire, desire or envy beauty, I'm not denying that). But it certainly hasn't meant that she's "always all right in life" . The poor woman has lost her job, is in financial turmoil, so upset she's crying in public and you're jealous because her nice face meant she got served first and had a door held open for her. WTF?

Grow up, OP.
Beautiful people still get sacked, still have parents die, still get ill themselves, still get cheated on, still cheat, still struggle academically, still win races, still eat, still pee, still take shits.

How shallow can you get?

Huh? that poster did not say her friend "wasn't allowed" to be sad at all.

I am sure her friend has moments of sadness just like all of us- thats part of being human and its something all of us feel from time to time. But you are projecting heavily to suggest that someone overweight MUST be secretly miserable. Not everyone feels the same way as you do and it's pretty offensive to suggest they should.

In all likelihood she is not aware of how pretty she is and the effect that has on other people. It's just her normal. If you swapped with her you wouldn't be aware of it either so you'd have gained nothing.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

She will attract the wrong sort of men and will probably be unhappy and be traded in for a younger model when her looks have faded.

I used to be jealous of pretty women, but now in my 50s, I can see that I that jealousy was misplaced.