I would swap with her in an instant

[Cookiecrumblane]

I am a sort of clever woman, financially secure, good at what I do. I have lots of friends and family around me, despite being single.
Today I met a woman through a friend, ten years younger than me. She was upset at losing her job last month, she had tried but made a serious of errors and was eventually sacked.
Even as she cried, she looked beautiful. She told me about her various problems, not being able to pay rent, her debt, her self esteem.
And I thought how much I would love to be that pretty. She was distraught, but even with all that was going on, she was served first and efficiently in the bar. Men held doors and beamed at her. They crossed the street to walk closer to her.
I have never had that. And so what good is education, my job, my success. Because ultimately she'll end up ok. She is more likely to get a job and when she does people will praise what she does much more than they praise people who look like me.
Is that mad? That I would swap with her in an instant, even to be jobless and at risk of losing my flat, just to feel visible?
I'm sure men don't feel this way.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos Demanding evidence from the women opposing your view, however, and then ignoring it when provided.

It sounds like you are from a different era (for example, university professors being surprised that you can answer questions, or being the only woman on the degree course), which may explain why your experience of the workplace has been different. I haven't witnessed anything that remotely resembles what you describe.

My DSs have witnessed it. Theyre 20s/30s. How do you explain that? They also have friends. Which I understand is OK for the younger, but impossible for the elder?

You're making assumptions on my era?

I'm probably from a more recent era than many posters on here. These things still happen today.

Stop trying to mansplain my life to me because it doesn't match your idea of what a woman's life should be.

You are not a woman, you have not had the experiences of a woman and therefore are not qualified to tell us whether our experience is right or wrong.

LOL you are so wrong it's laughable. You stated: "First of all, most men over the age of 30 do not have any close friends" and that this is rarely the case. Then you asked people to give specific examples.

I did just that about how multiple men over 30 do in fact have friends, and many people on this thread have too and now we have given examples you say thats just "my circle".

Maybe YOU have no friends and it's becoming abundantly clear why that is, but most men do in fact have friends. Just because you dont, doesnt mean everyone else is friendless 😂

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos I'm probably from a more recent era than many posters on here. These things still happen today.

Yes, but also from an older era than many posters on here too. Based on your description of the workplace, you would have had your first job in the 70s or 80s. Just before I was born perhaps. I am a millennial, so I have had a different experience.

Totally wrong. I wasn't even born when you think I had my first job. I'm also a Millennial. And amazingly, still have had a different experience to you. Because we all have different lives.

At least when men at work try to mansplain to me, they have a vague idea of what's going on.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos I wasn't even born when you think I had my first job. I'm also a Millennial.

Are you sure about that? Because for people of my generation, universities had already become female-dominated by then. I remember countless videos online of people crying doom about the end of men, as men were seemingly dumb, not going to university, and not getting worthwhile jobs. By the time I was in university, the majority of undergraduates were women, and many younger academics were also women- it was only among senior professorships that men still dominated.

Am I sure about....when I was born?

Jesus, you really do think women know nothing.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos So you went to university post, say, 2005, and you completed a degree in a field in which you were the only woman in the entire year group, and male undergraduates still outperformed female undergraduates in this field? (otherwise, the older male professors would not have been surprised at your ability to answer questions).

👏👏👏

Are you really asking @IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos if she is sure when she was born?

What new level of idiocy is this?

Am I sure about....when I was born?

Jesus, you really do think women know nothing

I am cackling. Wow- the stupidity of some men is really quite shocking isnt it?

Shuggles- tell us again why you have no friends, I could do with another laugh!!

😂

@shuggles

Let's get some things clear.

I know how old I am.
I know when I was at college and university.
I know I was the only woman in my classes.
I know what has happened in my life.
I know when I had my first, second, and every other job.
I know the difference between real life and television.
I know when a man hates women. Like you do.

You do not know any of these things about any other poster on here.
You have not been there for our experiences.
You do not speak for all men.
You definitely do not speak for women.
You do not know more than an entire thread of women.

Get a grip on reality.

And no, the male undergrads did not out perform the female. Because there was only me in my year and none in the year before me. You can believe me or not, but I have no reason to lie. I out performed 98% of my class, there was one who beat me on scores at the end. My friends from the course were two grades below me.

Women still do not dominate the STEM subjects, in terms of numbers. There are more than there used to be, but they are still male dominated subjects.

Maybe you did a more female dominated subject, if you even went to university? That would explain why you don't believe there could only be one woman in a class. And maybe why you have no friends, because if there were no men and you spoke to women like you have us, they won't have warmed to you.

Do you know, I forgot. I was born in the 50s! Silly me, I forgot I'm twice my age!

There's always the chance I might have forgotten I'm actually a pensioner rather than the mother of a toddler!

Do you know, I forgot. I was born in the 50s! Silly me, I forgot I'm twice my age!

I've just realised I've forgotten my age too, am I 90 or 18?

It's an absolute mystery - if only there were some way to know for sure? 🤔

You can believe me or not, but I have no reason to lie. I out performed 98% of my class, there was one who beat me on scores at the end. My friends from the course were two grades below me.

So if you performed well (as would be expected- the data shows that women consistently outperform men in academia) then why were your male professors surprised when you were able to give good answers? Are you sure they were surprised? Someone's facial expression may not reflect what they were thinking... or maybe they were surprised just because you gave a good answer, not because you are a woman.

Women still do not dominate the STEM subjects, in terms of numbers.

They do now.

Maybe you did a more female dominated subject, if you even went to university? That would explain why you don't believe there could only be one woman in a class. And maybe why you have no friends, because if there were no men and you spoke to women like you have us, they won't have warmed to you.

There were lots of women at university yes. I don't believe I spoke to women negatively though because I didn't speak to them much. I tend to keep to myself and I don't talk much to men or women.

Are you sure they were surprised? Someone's facial expression may not reflect what they were thinking... or maybe they were surprised just because you gave a good answer, not because you are a woman.

I'm sure. In the same way that a few months ago at work in a meeting full of men, a man explained a project to me incorrectly. When I corrected him, he suggested I read the paper which had kicked off the project. He was very surprised when my response was "maybe you should read the name of the person who wrote the paper". Because I had found the issue. I had done all the analysis and written the paper in question and I had gotten the project started.

There's some more evidence for you.

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos Being an ignoramus is not a male-specific trait, and I have worked with plenty of ignoramii who were both male and female.

Do you mind if I ask what the field is that you are currently in? (Just a general description). It sounds interesting if it involves analytical work and generating papers, and maybe I could have a look at it.

Being an ignoramus is not a male-specific trait, and I have worked with plenty of ignoramii who were both male and female

Did they ever question if someone forgot when they were born?

I do mind. Especially because I've already said it previously, but because you know so much more than me you've decided to ignore it and focus on the fact you think I don't know my own life or age.

There are pages and pages of posters giving their experiences in this thread and because they are different from yours, you've said they're wrong. So you'd actually never get a job doing what I do. Because you have to be able to accept when you're wrong and change your position.

@realityhack I have dealt with actual bullies, so they said stuff that was a million times worse than anything that anyone has said on this thread.

Just because something someone else said is worse does not mean your comment wasnt patronising and condescending AF and illustrates very nicely the kind of pathetic mansplaining women have to put up with as evidenced in this thread.

But did they ever ask someone if they're sure how old they are??

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos But did they ever ask someone if they're sure how old they are??

The question was not to be taken literally. I was expressing my disbelief that someone who is seemingly a similar age to me found herself in a degree course in which she was the only woman (yes, that includes STEM), who was condescended by old professors, and who has experienced behaviour in the workplace that is nothing like anything I have ever seen.

I've seen plenty of bullying and disgusting behaviour and the workplace, but it has been equal opportunity- men bullying men, women bullying men, women bullying women, etc. I guess it's fair to say that society has made progress because people are now free to bully other people regardless of their gender.