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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I would swap with her in an instant

560 replies

Cookiecrumblane · 28/07/2024 01:21

I am a sort of clever woman, financially secure, good at what I do. I have lots of friends and family around me, despite being single.
Today I met a woman through a friend, ten years younger than me. She was upset at losing her job last month, she had tried but made a serious of errors and was eventually sacked.
Even as she cried, she looked beautiful. She told me about her various problems, not being able to pay rent, her debt, her self esteem.
And I thought how much I would love to be that pretty. She was distraught, but even with all that was going on, she was served first and efficiently in the bar. Men held doors and beamed at her. They crossed the street to walk closer to her.
I have never had that. And so what good is education, my job, my success. Because ultimately she'll end up ok. She is more likely to get a job and when she does people will praise what she does much more than they praise people who look like me.
Is that mad? That I would swap with her in an instant, even to be jobless and at risk of losing my flat, just to feel visible?
I'm sure men don't feel this way.

OP posts:
IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 20:57

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:53

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos But did they ever ask someone if they're sure how old they are??

The question was not to be taken literally. I was expressing my disbelief that someone who is seemingly a similar age to me found herself in a degree course in which she was the only woman (yes, that includes STEM), who was condescended by old professors, and who has experienced behaviour in the workplace that is nothing like anything I have ever seen.

I've seen plenty of bullying and disgusting behaviour and the workplace, but it has been equal opportunity- men bullying men, women bullying men, women bullying women, etc. I guess it's fair to say that society has made progress because people are now free to bully other people regardless of their gender.

I'm only going to say this once more.

Your experience is not the only experience that can be true.

I can believe that there were multiple women on your degree course, despite that not being my experience at university. I can believe you have no friends, despite knowing men of your age and older who have many.

However, you have called several posters liars because they recounted their lived experiences, purely because they don't match your own.

Try imagining not being you, and what might have looked different for you. I presume you at least know other adult humans, even if you have no friends? Do you genuinely believe that their life experience is identical to yours?

shuggles · 05/08/2024 20:58

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos However, you have called several posters liars

No I didn't. I suggested they were mistaken.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 21:01

shuggles · 04/08/2024 22:07

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos You're a man. Of course you think we women are mistaken. You clearly know more about our own lives experiences than we do.

The claims aren't just about your own lies and experiences though. Your claims are about how men talk and act in the workplace. I would also challenge men who made the same claims.

@5128gap I was not mistaken when I had to give evidence in a disciplinary at work when a group of male colleagues were sharing nudes of a young female colleague one had had sex with. I'm happy to offer this anecdote without fear of it being outing as sadly this isn't sufficiently uncommon as to identify me or her.

You're the first person to provide a specific example, but I imagine this scenario is very uncommon. Of all the men I have worked with, I have never seen anything that comes to close to this.

You've referred to my "lies" in this post.

Try again.

shuggles · 05/08/2024 21:04

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos That's very clearly and obviously a typo.

Your post said "You clearly know more about our own lives experiences than we do."

To which I responded, "The claims aren't just about your own lives and experiences though." - using the same words you had used.

But unfortunately, the "v" was dropped off.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 21:07

shuggles · 05/08/2024 21:04

@IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos That's very clearly and obviously a typo.

Your post said "You clearly know more about our own lives experiences than we do."

To which I responded, "The claims aren't just about your own lives and experiences though." - using the same words you had used.

But unfortunately, the "v" was dropped off.

Of course you'd say that now, but obviously you're too smart to make typos so we all know you're mistaken.

VickyPollard25 · 05/08/2024 21:12

realityhack · 05/08/2024 20:31

Do you know, I forgot. I was born in the 50s! Silly me, I forgot I'm twice my age!

I've just realised I've forgotten my age too, am I 90 or 18?

It's an absolute mystery - if only there were some way to know for sure? 🤔

@realityhack It’s so hard, isn’t it?Sometimes when I’m watching TV I get really confused and start to think it’s real.

If only there was a man to ask. I know - Ask Mr Shuggles. He’ll learn ya.

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 21:14

@Cookiecrumblane I hope some of Mr Shuggles posts have reminded you of why male attention isn't the be all and end all in life.

VickyPollard25 · 05/08/2024 21:20

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 21:14

@Cookiecrumblane I hope some of Mr Shuggles posts have reminded you of why male attention isn't the be all and end all in life.

@Cookiecrumblane is now skipping through the streets and shouting for joy.

Lucy25 · 06/08/2024 00:01

shuggles · 04/08/2024 20:23

@VickyPollard25 @IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos Most of us know men like this.

And yet, none of you can ever cite specific examples. It's always vague statements like "men talk about their "conquests" with other men" but you can never recall a time when you actually saw this.

I'll agree it's not all men,

I don't agree that it's not all men. I'm saying it's a very very tiny number, or no men, because I've never seen this nonsense outside of school.

but I've worked in male dominated sectors for long enough to have come across the ones who like to tell everyone about their latest conquest or show people the "hot girl" they just matched with.

I have also worked with lots of men. And keep in mind that men have no reason to filter their words around me.

  • I've never heard men walking around work and talking about their "latest conquest." Keep in mind that the majority of men, from early 20s onwards, are in long-term relationships. Those who aren't tend to keep to themselves. The majority of men don't have "conquests," if that word means what I think it means.
  • I've never seen anyone walking around with a dating app to show everyone a "hot girl" that they just matched with. Again, keep in mind that most men get very few, or no, matches on dating apps.

I'm happy for you that you've never met any of these men. But don't dismiss the experiences of other women as not real because they don't match yours.

But again, when challenged on these points, none of you can ever cite specific memories or examples.

I swear that some of you people live on a different planet to me sometimes.

Edited

Wow, then l personally must be another person who’s naive, because l thought this forum, was for, to offer a listening ear, support, or at the very least not to just dismiss what they’re trying to get across.Or expect someone to give examples, memories for validation.Telling people they’re living on another planet, just because you don’t believe what they’ve said, how in any way is this helping.Just because you’ve not experienced this, doesn’t mean, it hasn’t happened.

SerafinasGoose · 07/08/2024 22:53

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · 05/08/2024 21:14

@Cookiecrumblane I hope some of Mr Shuggles posts have reminded you of why male attention isn't the be all and end all in life.

😂

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