I would swap with her in an instant

[Cookiecrumblane]

I am a sort of clever woman, financially secure, good at what I do. I have lots of friends and family around me, despite being single.
Today I met a woman through a friend, ten years younger than me. She was upset at losing her job last month, she had tried but made a serious of errors and was eventually sacked.
Even as she cried, she looked beautiful. She told me about her various problems, not being able to pay rent, her debt, her self esteem.
And I thought how much I would love to be that pretty. She was distraught, but even with all that was going on, she was served first and efficiently in the bar. Men held doors and beamed at her. They crossed the street to walk closer to her.
I have never had that. And so what good is education, my job, my success. Because ultimately she'll end up ok. She is more likely to get a job and when she does people will praise what she does much more than they praise people who look like me.
Is that mad? That I would swap with her in an instant, even to be jobless and at risk of losing my flat, just to feel visible?
I'm sure men don't feel this way.

One problem, no matter how you want to be here you CAN'T be. Get over it!

I applied for a job a few years ago - all online interviews as it was a WFH job. I got down to the last 2 and it went to someone else. No reason given, I asked how I could've improved or what I could've done differently and was told nothing, I did really well and they had no tips they could give me, they just went with the other person. I checked their website after that to see who had got the job and it went to someone younger, blond and very pretty. She had only been qualified in our profession for a year, versus my many years qualified and many many more years of experience. I genuinely felt that the only reason she got it was that I am fat and ugly. Maybe I didn't come across as well, especially since I could see my own face in the corner of the screen during the interviews and I avoid looking at myself as much as I can so found that very offputting!
Pretty privilege is definitely a thing and anyone who doesn't think so is one of the pretty ones!!
And yes, I know you will blame it on my own self-esteem issues and yes, you're probably right but it is what it is!

What a strange post, sounds like u have issues that need addressing.

Wow. I can’t believe what I am reading.

It explains why women can be so unkind to other women in the workplace I guess.

This is so true.

I also worked with a much older woman who told me that the more beautiful a woman is, the worse she is treated by men. She was saying the same thing that you are. It’s true. They don’t see beautiful women as people.

Going against the grain here but I do see and understand to a degree where OP is coming from.
I come from a humble, working class background. Worked extremely hard at school, had to fight a male dominated culture and be twice as good as a man in my career and I have amounted to a very modest lifestyle.
I have 2 friends who did nothing at school except mess about, never got a single qualification, didn't work hard post school but manage to have very high flying careers, an exceptional lifestyle and are extremely well off financially. They are both absolutely stunning, have always been inundated with male attention and could take their pick of men.
So, yes OP I get it, however, I would take, kindness, decency and generosity above any other quality or attribute and I am sure you have those in abundance but we all need to come on here and have a rant about the unfairness of life from time to time.

It's OK to he jealous of someone who has something you want. But I think the fact you're single is really skewing your perspective here. Good things don't just happen to beautiful people, and in fact horrible things happen to beautiful people just because they're beautiful, especially women. Be grateful for what you have and appreciate it.

Citation needed. I've never seen examples of this. If men are more romantically interested in beautiful women (and we expect that they would be), then why would they treat those women worse and reduce their chances of a relationship?

The only way I imagine this could be true is that beautiful women select the most attractive men, and it's only a small number of attractive men that have more than one woman interested in them, so those men feel they can do whatever they want and get away from it. But that's an issue with those men, not men as a whole.

You are allowed to feel how you feel, some of the responses, dismissing how you feel, don’t take it personally, think some of the comments are based on, you don’t realise how good your life, actually is.The thing is, when she was talking to you, about the way her life is, for all you know, she would’ve loved to swap life with you, l know the irony, because you have so much going for you.To be financially independent, is really huge, have your family around you and the fact that, she was pouring her heart out to you, means, she thinks you’re lovely, approachable, good with people, your opinion matters, you’re definitely not invisible Never underestimate yourself, because how you see yourself, isn’t how others see you.
One thing is true, you can do anything you want to do, you have options, which some people just don’t have.I know this is going to be cliche, beauty is, in the eye of the beholder, just because you don’t see yourself as attractive, doesn’t mean others, think the same way.
Appreciate what you have.

I don’t have citations. Just advice that older women have shared and my own observations. It is just an opinion.

The fact that men are so much more interested in beautiful women is because of their beauty. Not anything else (at first anyway). That is objectifying women. Boasting to friends, showing photos of their conquest (not inappropriate photos) and generally using the woman to look good - like they would a nice car or other material objects. This isn’t kind or respectful.

Being cat called on the street, or stopped by men with any kind of authority under false pretences only to be asked for your phone number, being groped or assaulted in public because you draw attention. Sexual harassment at work, etc. The list goes on.

They may have also been able to pay her a lot less.

This is exactly right.

Some men are vile when rejected. I’d rather not have the attention in the first place than have to deal with that.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Why you think looking one way or another is better than you have is sad. Don't let looks define you. Be you and get a make over if you feel stuck. You need to start living yourself not spend your life thinking the grass is greener elsewhere

I don't agree with PPs generalisation as I think attractive women are treated better by random unknown men and acquaintances than less attractive ones for the reasons you say. However once in a relationship the gloves come off as it were, and I think there's little difference in how well a man treats his established partner related to her looks. If anything, women who are considerably more attractive than the man may have thought he'd get can find themselves subject to 'negging' jealousy and control due to his insecurity. So maybe that's where the thinking comes from. Though of course women don't need to be attractive to experience these things, as male poor treatment of women from men that way inclined tends to be an equal opportunity activity, fully inclusive of all!

I guess I’m thinking of personal experience. Examples - being prevented by a rail guard from exiting a train station, being taken into his office and being very upset and worried, and then told there was nothing wrong with my ticket, and he just wanted my phone number. I had to politely decline and say I had a boyfriend while raging inside. I was late to work because of this idiot.
Another example, being surrounded by a group of men at 9am one morning in a public place who proceeded to block my way and grope me (yes, I reported it to police and they were charged). Another example, being sexually harassed at work by the very old chairman of the board who took a liking to me, would stare at me if he came to the office (embarrassing for me and noticed by others) and he would bypass my boss on work and go straight to me (which obviously caused issues for me with her). It culminated in some severe sexual harassment in front of other colleagues (I sued and received a payout, but my career there obviously over and the entire experience was traumatic). The list goes on. In another job the IT guy decided he fancied me and it became clear he was reading my emails when he congratulated me on some news on and my partner knew about. Until I got to my 40s, my work life was sheer hell because of unwanted attention from men. It is so much better now. These were not men I was in relationships with. Just arseholes who think these are entitled to women they fancy. So I really do think women who men find attractive have a harder time.

Poppycock

I agree with you and have had similar experiences. Please let's not make the mistake of thinking that men "being nice to you" due to your looks is down to a motivation of kindness or innocent empathy and generosity. Its not. They want to shag you is all- so, use you for sex. Thats it, and when you dont acquiesce, or even turn them down politely, they frequently turn nasty and aggressive- happened to me many times and a few times I was afraid for my life.

There is absolutely nothing to envy about that, unless you enjoy being treated like a sex doll who has no feelings, no brain, and isnt even a person in their own right.

@VickyPollard25 The fact that men are so much more interested in beautiful women is because of their beauty. Not anything else (at first anyway). That is objectifying women. Boasting to friends, showing photos of their conquest (not inappropriate photos) and generally using the woman to look good - like they would a nice car or other material objects. This isn’t kind or respectful.

Men don't do this. I understand that women may look through dating apps in groups, or discuss love/sex/relationships, or their partner, with friends, but these group discussions aren't something that men would do. First of all, most men over the age of 30 do not have any close friends. First of all, sexuality and dating tends to be something that men keep to themselves. If a man showed me a picture of his girlfriend just to boast, I would find that extremely strange.

I have seen it many times. When they proud of what they have “got”, they do it. My friend even met her husband because a mutual male friend showed him a photo of her to show him how cute she is.

You sound like you have a rather sheltered life, @shuggles. The way some men talk about women is absolutely disgusting. Like inanimate objects to do as they please with. This does not have to be with close friends at all.

@VickyPollard25 I have seen it many times. When they proud of what they have “got”, they do it.

When did you see it? Where? Who?

How do you know you didn't just see this in a movie, where men behave nothing like their real life counterparts?

What? Like most people, I can tell the difference between a conversation I have with real life people and when I’m watching a movie 🙄

Most of us know men like this. I'll agree it's not all men, but I've worked in male dominated sectors for long enough to have come across the ones who like to tell everyone about their latest conquest or show people the "hot girl" they just matched with.

I'm happy for you that you've never met any of these men. But don't dismiss the experiences of other women as not real because they don't match yours.

@VickyPollard25 @IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos Most of us know men like this.

And yet, none of you can ever cite specific examples. It's always vague statements like "men talk about their "conquests" with other men" but you can never recall a time when you actually saw this.

I'll agree it's not all men,

I don't agree that it's not all men. I'm saying it's a very very tiny number, or no men, because I've never seen this nonsense outside of school.

but I've worked in male dominated sectors for long enough to have come across the ones who like to tell everyone about their latest conquest or show people the "hot girl" they just matched with.

I have also worked with lots of men. And keep in mind that men have no reason to filter their words around me.

• I've never heard men walking around work and talking about their "latest conquest." Keep in mind that the majority of men, from early 20s onwards, are in long-term relationships. Those who aren't tend to keep to themselves. The majority of men don't have "conquests," if that word means what I think it means.
• I've never seen anyone walking around with a dating app to show everyone a "hot girl" that they just matched with. Again, keep in mind that most men get very few, or no, matches on dating apps.

I'm happy for you that you've never met any of these men. But don't dismiss the experiences of other women as not real because they don't match yours.

But again, when challenged on these points, none of you can ever cite specific memories or examples.

I swear that some of you people live on a different planet to me sometimes.

@shuggles this is an anonymous forum. We aren't giving you specific examples because we wish to remain anonymous and not being recognised by our friends or colleagues.

We also shouldn't have to give you specific examples for you to believe that we've heard men speaking like this. Or that we've been subjected to men treating us like this. What do we have to gain by lying on an anonymous forum???

It happens. Don't be so naive that you think it doesn't.