Aibu to not simply give DB half of this money??

[Gcn]

Years ago (prob around 15 years ago), DM set up a joint savings account with me. At the time she said she and her mum had one and that I should consider the money mine. It's a 40 day notice account. Early on I put some money in, but she put in the lion's share. When I was a king big purchases (e.g. New kitchen, car) she'd say to take it from that account. I never did - too much hassle to withdraw money. Over the past 10 is years it's just sat there, I've put in the odd £50 to keep it active. But it's gaining no interest now, so I wanted to move it to another account. When I mentioned it to mum to get her permission as joint account holder she agreed and has written a letter to bank to that effect.

Anyway DB is visiting for a few days and he mentioned how dm is anxious about the money, that she can't remember where the money came from, and that she wants to split it between him and me.

Aibu to disagree? It's not all her money to decide what to do with. If I'd used it when she'd suggested then there'd be very little left. There about £13k in it, mum will have put in around £6k I think, but have no statements from when it was opened. DM is terminally ill. If I hadn't mentioned the account to her it would have just come to me when she dies. She wants it sorted out and wants me to give £6.5k to DB.

It hardly seems right that your mother (according to your brother) wants you to give half of the entire amount to him, who hasn't contributed a penny, which would mean he would get all of her contributions and some of yours which rather defeats the object of having this joint account in the first place.

How and why does your brother know about this account and has he suggested to your mum that this is what should happen? Why does he want this money now?

Check with the bank if all monies would come to you as the surviving account holder when your mother dies and if not how it would be split. It might make a difference if both signatures are required for a withdrawal or just one. If all the money would automatically come to you this could be why he is pushing for it before your mum dies.

You say she can't remember where the money came from, so if she has dementia or similar this would make a difference as to whether she has the mental capacity to make this sort of financial decision. Does anyone have power of attorney?

Personally I don't think your brother should try to assume any rights to this money as it was an arrangement between you and your mother, but what is morally right and what is legally right are often very different things.

It's not really about the amount of money, at best he should only expect 1/2 of your mum's 1/2, so 25% of the total amount, but it is the principle. WHY does he think he is entitled to it?'

My mum's will was set up so that it was split 50/50 between my sister and me. My mum died during covid (not from covid) and she had wanted to change things so that I had a greater share as I was the one who was her carer for 15 years and she wanted me to be secure. I had to assure her that whatever happened I would be fine. My parents paid for my sister's wedding and whenever she wanted/needed anything my dad stumped up. She had much more from them but still expected "her" 1/2 when mum died. Because the will wasn't formally changed my (now ex) sister insisted she got her pound of flesh half even though she had a house, mortgage paid off and I had lived in my mum's house as her carer, spent all my savings on things for the house and was about to become homeless. She even had the temerity to say that I wasn't entitled to what I did get because I had lived with my mum "rent free". I didn't see her changing continence pads and generally dealing with stuff at 3 in the morning.

As the saying goes Where there's a will there's a way, but usually it is Where there's a will there is some sort of family feud or argument or any amount of ill feeling.

The fact that she suggested you had a joint account, in the same way as her mother had with her, says that if was for you and your future. If she had wanted your brother to be in on it he would have been named on the account or she would have had a different one with him.

Ask the bank in the morning but don't just hand over the cash on your brother's say-so.

Exactly this!

I would just say to your brother that it’s your future wedding fund given that he had his paid for by your Mum.

If I were you I would give your DB half of what your DM put into the account. You'll need to go get the bank records to figure it out. It seems like otherwise you will need to show she intended to gift you the funds she contributed. I'm not sure that is possible since she is saying now she intended for DB to have half.

Just work out what you paid on and withdraw it and then your brother can have your mothers share which is what she appears to want.

The bank will be able to give you bank statements. With a joint account either party can withdraw funds you don't need both parties to sign unless this account is not held in the UK? In your opening you started that your mum had put in the lions share but then you say that there's 13k and mum has probably put in 6k so where has the 7k come from? Interest rates are not that good and you said that you had only put £50 in here and there so sounds like most of the money is your mum's unless I've read this wrong.

Get the bank statements and work out what your mother's share is and give your brother half of that. He shouldn't have any entitlement to your contributions to the account though, and if he's reasonable he wouldn't expect it.

Surely just say to your brother that your mum gave you some money for that and gave him some money for the wedding. You've since added to it so it's yours. Most people should be reasonable with an explanation like that, it's not talking about it or being cagey that cause the issues!

Did you remind your mum and tell your brother that you've been putting money in there too?

Yes YABU. My mother-in-law had an account like this set-up with my sister-in-law. In this case all of the money was my mother-in-law’s. The account was set-up like that as her daughter lived close to her and my husband and me lived a few hundred miles away, so the daughter could withdraw from it and provide cash to my mother-in-law when she wanted it. When she died, the large balance went straight to my sister-in-law. My view on this will be coloured by my sister-in-law engaging in estate fraud though. Legal proceedings took 18-months. They were not concerned with the aforementioned account though. Which of course was entirely hers at the point of my mother-in-laws death.

Of course. But men don't usually suffer financially at the point a relationship/marriage breaks down because they've been a SAHP, or carer etc. Hence a "fuck off fund" being traditionally for women.

If he was reasonable he wouldn't expect any of it.

You can ask the bank for a record of payments, but I would be sitting your mum down and discussing it with her and explain to her that you’ve paid in the majority ..
Have to say it’s a
strange thing for your mum to do with only one of her children and you need to move the money if she’s signed

You need to call and talk to your mum…
also when you withdraw the money you need to ask for a statement of payments since it was opened … then photocopy that and send it to DB…. Explain that she only paid in £6k so you will happily pay him half of that although obviously he’s had other money of your mum (like wedding) that you haven’t…. And then leave it with him… I’d also be saying same to your mum

in the post you said DM put the lions share into the account. But the total split is you get more?

You said ‘she put in the lions share’ and then you
said you ‘put in the odd £50 to keep it active’.

How does ‘the odd £50’ add up to half of it when you say there’s barely any interest anyway 🙄

You know you’re being cheeky and that your mother put in most of that money. You’re just trying to pull a fast one. I feel annoyed just reading it.

However, with it being a joint account you can probably withdraw it all if you want. You may lose your family in the meantime but you do you.

This is a very odd set up? I think in this situation if your mother is of sound mind, she gets to do whatever she likes with her half of the money. I think perhaps the fairest thing to do would to be split the money in half and then for her to give half of her half to your brother and the other half to you if she doesn’t need it herself.

My guess is she did exactly the same for your brother and he spent his a long time ago. She may have forgotten this or may feel uncomfortable that at this critical time you have something that he doesn’t (even though he’d already spent it.)

Maybe trace the payments you have made into the account from your bank accounts as far back as you can (and banks can go further but might charge.). Hopefully you didn’t pay cash in.

Once you’ve established what has come from you, plus interest, just split her contribution with him for a quiet life / not upset her as she is I’ll.

As the account has both your names on but not your brother’s, the money clearly wasn’t for him and if he wasn’t a money grabbing arsehole he wouldn’t take / keep it regardless of what your mum says.

No it's not your fault. Essentially if you've paid over half of it and she's given you that other money, if you give your brother half you get nothing. So explain that to her and tell her your brother is only getting 3k. As that's half of her money that she put in. If she says no, give him 6k then tell her that means she'll be giving you nothing in that case.

She's not being unkind at all. Her brother isn't entitled to half of the money when she's paid in over half of the money on her own.

I had a similar joint account with my Dad, when he died that money automatically became mine because my name was on the account. Therefore if you do not want to share it with your brother you don’t have to.

I feel like you could just ask the bank for a print out of all payments into the account since it opened. It doesn’t sound like it will be a lot of individual payments.
Or just a straight forward conversation with your brother stating that while your mum made a payment into it of £x’s the rest is money that you’ve paid in over the years for ‘just encase’ which was the whole point of the account…. Explain to him that the majority of the money is yours…. And I’d also just say that you’re happy to give him £3k which is half of what mother paid in BUT obviously you feel it slightly unfair as she spent probably 3 or 4 times that amount on his wedding a few years ago! And then leave him to think about it… tell him you are requesting proof from the bank to show payments into the account because mum has actually paid in less than you have!!
mid hes reasonable he won’t ask for any of it… if he’s unreasonable send him photos of the statements with only your mums contribution highlighted and tell him the most he can have is half of that

Or simply ring your mum and tell her how it became such a large sum! Tell her you’ve been adding to it and the money is yours!! I would remind her how much she spent on brothers wedding and also ask her whether she set up an account with him too ?!
Are you scared to ask her / tell her about your contributions ?? Remind her why the account was set up in the first place and remind her that she gifted that money to you and that you find it unfair that she’s now taking it back to give to your brother who has already had money one way or another from her!!

I agree with this, that's definitely what I would do!

Has OP come back with any type of update? I hope she isn't ghosting us. 👻