Aibu to not simply give DB half of this money??

[Gcn]

Years ago (prob around 15 years ago), DM set up a joint savings account with me. At the time she said she and her mum had one and that I should consider the money mine. It's a 40 day notice account. Early on I put some money in, but she put in the lion's share. When I was a king big purchases (e.g. New kitchen, car) she'd say to take it from that account. I never did - too much hassle to withdraw money. Over the past 10 is years it's just sat there, I've put in the odd £50 to keep it active. But it's gaining no interest now, so I wanted to move it to another account. When I mentioned it to mum to get her permission as joint account holder she agreed and has written a letter to bank to that effect.

Anyway DB is visiting for a few days and he mentioned how dm is anxious about the money, that she can't remember where the money came from, and that she wants to split it between him and me.

Aibu to disagree? It's not all her money to decide what to do with. If I'd used it when she'd suggested then there'd be very little left. There about £13k in it, mum will have put in around £6k I think, but have no statements from when it was opened. DM is terminally ill. If I hadn't mentioned the account to her it would have just come to me when she dies. She wants it sorted out and wants me to give £6.5k to DB.

That's why I'd favour the idea of moving it all into your account, giving your mum back whatever she invested plus interest, and doing whatever you want with the remainder

That way you're cheating nobody, though good luck if DB's been told he'll be receiving £6500 and then doesn't

I’d speak to her for clarity but at most she should be offering half of what her contribution was (£3k) to him. Then you also keep £3k + the £7k of money that is literally already yours! Why should you get nothing and also walk away £500 worse off whilst he gets £6.5k for free?

I'd honestly just withdraw the lot and wait and see if anyone takes legal action.

If she is confused, getting into a discussion about it won't help.

Take decisive action and just say that you acted fully within the intention of the account and let you brother prove otherwise.

Your mum hasn't raised this as an issue with you, your brother has. He has no name or opinion on the account. Ignore him.

Your db is entitled to at most 1/4 if she wants to split her half with both of you.
Otherwise she’s giving you nothing.

This is how it should be. I suspect brother is being a bit manipulative here.
My Mum and Sister had some joint accounts from when they ran a business together.Technically I suppose Mum's half should be split between the 3 of us siblings but a lot of the IP was actually my sisters so it does seem unfair that we benefit.

Sounds like you brother wants some of that money!

So it seems like you need to talk directly to DM, remind her that just over half is your money which you contributed, so you will not be sharing that. If she wants DB to have some of it, surely he would get half of her contributions and you would get the rest?

So do you live in a different country to your mother as you say there are no branches in her country?

Should have been in the OP, tbh

If you make an appt at the bank they can show you the transaction history. You then have proof of what you paid in - withdraw that. Then transfer the rest to your dm account and she can do as she pleases

No one will take legal action over a few thousand pounds. Solicitor costs will far exceed the money owed.

having been on the other side where a sibling transferred all their parents money into her own account, it’s really crappy behaviour.

give your brother his share.

i also don’t think it was right of your mum to set up this account for you and not for your brother. Sexist and unfair. Even if it was an “escape fund”, she should have done the same for your brother.

DM didn’t put £6.5k in though

YABU. As a parent I plan to leave all my assets to my two DC equally. Can you think of a reason your DM thinks you should get more than your DB? You may find you lose his trust for the rest of your lives. Is it worth it?

But she didn’t. And if she had intended the money to be split between herself, OP and her brother, why did she not include him on the account in the first place ? He has put nothing in and is now demanding half. Don’t think so.

Of course there’s a reason. If DM had wanted OP’s brother to benefit she would have named him on the account. So DM and OP add to the account over the years and then DB just walks in and demands half after contributing nothing ? Seriously ?

Do you not think he’s stealing from DM and OP ? He’s contributed nothing and is not named on the account. Why should he be entitled to anything ?

I think this is the most sensible thing to do. I’d insist on the account being closed or remove my own funds and have my name taken off the account. If DM is now changing the terms from when the account was set up then leave her with her contribution to do as she likes with and take your own out.

Are you sure DB isn’t putting pressure on your mum now that he knows about the account ?

OP was clear her own contribution was small AND her DM's wishes were for the money to be split equally. Of course she could remove what she herself had contributed. Legally it's in her name so she'll get away with it she had the same instinct as you to seize it all for herself. I say again: "Is it worth it?"

He doesn't have a share.

DM set up amd paid into that account when she had all her faculties.

It's only when you lose a parent to terminal cancer that you see first hand how their behaviour changes as they struggle coming to terms woth it plus the fact that often in the latter months the brain and behaviour is being affected.

DM was in her right mind then. She is not now. DB is exploiting that, deliberately or not.

I'm sorry about your parents and my view in no way judges your specific experience.

Not really, the mum said she could use it for her kitchen so who’s to say she hadn’t earmarked that money to replace the money she used for the kitchen/pay off the kitchen loan and just hadn’t got around to withdrawing it yet due to the onerous nature of the withdrawal conditions.

Perhaps if she’d known her mum was going to change the nature of the account and tell her to share it with her brother she would have taken the money out for the kitchen sooner.

People make decisions based on the information they’re given, OP thought the account was for her and made decisions accordingly, if she’d know she would eventually be expected to split it with her brother she probably would’ve made different decisions.

If it’s in joint names it belongs to you both. You can withdraw it, as in the bank would allow you to do so but you’d owe her half (or a proportion representing her contribution but the presumption is half). If she dies, you owe the estate half. It’s absolutely wrong advice that one person can help themselves to the entire contents of a joint account. No you cannot. Look up the law of trusts.

A joint account isn't just split 50/50.

You would be treated as holding the money on trust for one another for as long as the account is in existence. The trust can specify particular shares but that is not the case here. Where there are no specific shares specified the presumption if the trust comes to an end (eg if all money is withdrawn) is equal division OR if it can be inferred that you intended unequal shares in line with your contributions, then that. It is not for one person to take the entire amount for themselves and the executor of your mums will will hopefully pursue you for her share if you take such action and I hope your brother kicks up a fuss about it. You’re extremely selfish.

It’s a perfectly good arrangement as long as both parties understand how it works. Unfortunately I’m not sure the OP and her mother are on the same page.

OP I think you need to talk to your DM about what’s in the account. Does she understand you’ve also put money in? It sounds like she thinks she’s being fair in agreeing to split the contents 50/50, but actually believes it to be all her money.

Show her what you’ve put in, agree that you will take that out, then let her decide what she wants to do with the balance. My suggestion would be to close the joint account, because there’s no point in holding one if you have no say over what’s in it.

I think you should clarify with your mother what her wishes are for the money. Not take second hand instructions from your brother.

I'm biased because I have a money grabbing nasty brother but reading your OP I was thinking I bet mum mentioned in passing she had to sign for you to get the money out and he started manipulating for the money. Drip drip drip guilting her I to agreeing he should get half.

You said the money was a running away account like mum had with her mum. (I think this is a brilliant id a and shall do this for my dd now I've read this!). To me it reads like I was money to protect you from poor treatment by a man that and as she paid towards his wedding he should not have a part of the final balance.

Speak to your mum. If she genuinely wants brother to have his half then work out what mum put in and halve that