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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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5
FrippEnos · 28/07/2024 19:03

IllMetByMoonlight

You may not consider educating people a part of JS0s remit but it should be, as it should for anyone that declares themselves a protector/demonstrator/activist of any area.

All JSO has done is chase people away from their cause.

VeryOldMan · 28/07/2024 19:05

Allfur · 28/07/2024 09:36

It's interesting that of all the group jailed, it's the young female getting most flack

Only because her mother is a total bloody idiot with a sense of entitlement bigger than the iceberg that sank the Titanic!

Nobodyknowsitall5 · 28/07/2024 19:28

Kitkatcatflap · 26/07/2024 12:09

I winced when I read the 'she will miss her brother's wedding'. Also, the mother saying that Cressida grew up knowing right from wrong and has a strong moral compass. That she (Cressida) tried the political route but when nothing happend she had to do something - break the law, cause hours and hours of delays, wasting police time and tax payers money.

So cringe.

Likewise.

Now she resides at hmp taking money from the tax payer

Totallymessed · 28/07/2024 19:39

IllMetByMoonlight · 28/07/2024 10:58

Many posters seem to delight in imagining these protesters being disappointed or shocked at being given long custodial sentences, suggesting they were just doing it for 'social media likes' or thought they'd be 'let off'. The legal process and the justice system is not some surprising, unforeseen consequence in acts of civil disobedience, it's part and parcel of the process of disruption and bringing a cause to public attention.

Here's an extract from a statement from Roger Hallam: "This trial was an experiment with the truth, as Gandhi called it. We were not trying to win, we were trying to tell the truth as if the truth was real... It was integrity, not expediency. So obviously, we spoke that truth. Obviously, we got interrupted. Obviously, we continue to speak even when the judges shouted at us to stop, had us dragged from the dock, banged up in jail."
No surprises for anyone involved.

But it shows us that, while our model of growth economy and reliance on fossil fuels continues to perpetuate and facilitate climate breakdown which is already having disastrous consequences for the global South, we are happy to cheer on a judiciary which is locking up the canaries.

A poster on one JSO thread, @CautiousLurker I think, posted about how her (?) DH works in the roll-out and logistics of game-changing low-carbon tech and solutions (I hope I've got this right). This is what we all need to get behind and demand investment and research into ‐there are some brilliant minds working on extraordinary innovations‐ instead of sniggering at the perceived just deserts of others and taking down someone's mum.

Roger Hallam has got some serious messianic delusions going on. The man is an absolute zealot. It's difficult to feel any kind of empathy for a group of people who regard their fellow citizens as disposable to any whim they decide to play with.

PeachSnake · 28/07/2024 19:47

NotTerfNorCis · 28/07/2024 15:06

I voted YABU because the mother is obviously going through a kind of grief. She's trying to humanise her daughter and get her critics to see her (and the family) as real people. In that context, the word 'moan' seems cruel.

Yep, I think on reflection that when I said it should have been a lot longer sentence could have been more sensibly put, 4 years is plenty and she'll hopefully get out sooner and become law abiding!😊

OP posts:
Totallymessed · 28/07/2024 19:49

IllMetByMoonlight · 28/07/2024 16:09

@slantedroof, and this is the great pity, isn't it? I suspect lots of people haven't heard of the oil licencing agreements despite regular prime time reporting on most major media channels, as part of the news for the last couple of years.

Yet, when faced with the frankly perplexing decision of a group of people to climb the M25 gantries, unfurling a banner with the apparently incoherent phrase 'Just Stop Oil'; most people don't seem to feel curious or have an impulse to Google what this could possibly be about: the JSO homepage is a very accessible, concise 3-sentence statement of what they hope to achieve. That ought to clear things up in about one minute, one would think. ("I mean, these guys clearly think it's important enough to go to quite extreme lengths, oh, and it seems to have something to do with the climate... well, that definitely concerns me and my family's future, so I'd better look it up".)

But is that not our responsibility, to find out and inform ourselves? Instead, people seem to think "Tossers ‐I'm tuning out." Like people have a sense that they can make informed judgements without actually being informed.

You don't get people to listen to you by telling them they are so unimportant to you that you will happily stop them from getting to hospital appointments and funerals. There seems to be a weird belief that "any publicity is good publicity". Well no, if you make the public despise you, they are not going to be open to you telling them what they need to think.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/07/2024 19:54

You said it yourself, @IllMetByMoonlight: "there is ample funding for new science and technology, as big financial gains are ripe for (not so) early adaptors"

Rightly or wrongly money is a very big motivation to produce whatever reports and suggestions are wanted, which may well explain why climate issues have become an industry in themselves as folk scrabble for a place at the trough

Bodeganights · 28/07/2024 19:56

IllMetByMoonlight · 28/07/2024 17:11

@slantedroof I don't think JSO (or I) are chastising the public for not googling them. I just find it weird that people aren't interested in such a massive issue irrespective of whatever JSO get up to, to want to keep on top of the issues which look set to impact our lives the most: I've a couple of issues that I'm involved with because I perceive they are key issues which impact the lives of many vulnerable people, as well as being my own lived experience. During the course of my campaigning (individual, very small scale, grassroots) I come across lots of people who deliberately obstruct and demonstrably disagree with what I hope to achieve. I don't "tune out" as a result. It annoys me, but doesn't fundamentally impact how I engage with the issue.

So you dont tune out, the rest of us do.

Jso may as well get in the sea. Or at least think more carefully about who their protests impact. And either not protest or make arrangements for those who will need to get to hospital or work or funerals or death beds or compensate these people.

JSOmother · 28/07/2024 19:58

An interesting conversation to observe. I am the mother of a young person arrested and convicted of walking down the road on a JSO protest. I have name changed for this thread.

Thank you to @IllMetByMoonlight and @Merrythoughts7 for your posts on the issues of climate change, democratic rights to protest etc.

My DC last autumn participated in a Slow March organised by JSO and was arrested and charged with Wilful Obstruction of a Highway. They walked for 24 mins slowly down a road. For about half that time cars could overtake. All 40 on the march were arrested. They left the road and cleared it as soon as there was a blue light in accordance with JSO's blue light policy.

I attended the trial which lasted two days. The level of security was extraordinary and I was placed in a glassed in public gallery. As supporters if the defendants we were well and truly othered in way that doesn't happen in other trials. I've visited criminal courts on several other occasions though never previously linked to a defendant. It was stage I was even accused of grafftying the ladies loos.

it Sia. postcode lottery as to whether you are convicted or not - your solicitors knows which District Judges convict and which acquit - my DC wasn't entitled to a jury trial even though he could have been sentenced to one year in prison. At my DC's trial they were all allowed to make a statement about why they had participated in the march. Six defendants were on trial that day. They all spoke very articulately and with intellectual rigour. I'd prefer to have them running the country than many politicians. My DC spoke about the impact of flooding, about how we had participated in the Friday school strikes, about how he is a Quaker and how over centuries Quakers (and others) had taken a stand on many societal issues that were considered radical at the time and now are accepted as normal practice. Role of women, antisemitism & the Kinder transport, homosexuality, apartheid, civil rights in the US are just some.

The JSO marchers completely appreciate they are causing disruption - that is the purpose as a mechanism to raise awareness. I completely appreciate this is inconvenient to many caught up and for some causes missing very important appointments and family events. I am not in favour of damaging property and the slow walkers were not doing that.

This disruption does though need to be balanced against the existential threat to society from the climate emergency. As some previous posters have mentioned the disruption that has been caused by the climate emergency is already high and will only escalate over the next couple of decades. We ourselves live in an area very heavily affected by floods. Thousands of people suffer a lot more than being late for an appointment due to floods when their home is made uninhabitable. Hundreds of thousands of people are being displaced each year due to climate change and this is causing regional tension and conflict and affecting the UK with the increased numbers of displaced persons. and on a more day to day matter many disrupted by JSO protests forget that so often the M25 and other roads are blocked by sheer wright of traffic or an accident or road works - all a failure of the government to invest in affordable working public transport.

Closer to home just this week Spain is saying that their tourism sector is at risk because it is not safe for tourists to visit many traditional beach resorts in the summer.

Back the trial of the five with the long jail sentences Michel Forst the UN Rapporteur on Environmental Defenders has issued the following statement on the sentence of one of the five convicted for participating in the Zoom Call. 1000 señor public figures including the Archbishop of Canterbury have asked the Attorney General to review the sentences.

unece.org/sites/default/files/2024-07/ACSR_C_2024_26_UK_SR_EnvDefenders_public_statement_18.07.2024.pdf

This is a super complex issue - hard to unpick and requires governments to produce leadership separately and collectively rather than be in hoc to the oil and gas corporates who inevitably have vested interests.

My DC has just graduated and is planning a career working in public service with deprived families. He will now for the next 11 years have to declare a conviction for walking along a road. 2 years ago this wouldn't have been a recordable offence. In my view the last government weaponised environmental protest to protect their interests and the financial interests of their buddies. Instead they could have invested in address the issue of climate change and implemented the measures their own Climate Change Committee recommended.

There are plenty of brilliant scientists and policy advisors working hard on climate change but they are too easily ignored when it isn't in the interests of the government of the day. I have worked alongside cabinet ministers and other ministers and am acutely aware of the dither and delay in the system. Yes Minister is a massive understand of the reality.

While JSO's approach isn't how I seek to deliver change after two days in court I came away with new found respect for peaceful climate activists.

Please do consider this matter in the round before judging climate activists.

Totallymessed · 28/07/2024 20:16

JSOmother · 28/07/2024 19:58

An interesting conversation to observe. I am the mother of a young person arrested and convicted of walking down the road on a JSO protest. I have name changed for this thread.

Thank you to @IllMetByMoonlight and @Merrythoughts7 for your posts on the issues of climate change, democratic rights to protest etc.

My DC last autumn participated in a Slow March organised by JSO and was arrested and charged with Wilful Obstruction of a Highway. They walked for 24 mins slowly down a road. For about half that time cars could overtake. All 40 on the march were arrested. They left the road and cleared it as soon as there was a blue light in accordance with JSO's blue light policy.

I attended the trial which lasted two days. The level of security was extraordinary and I was placed in a glassed in public gallery. As supporters if the defendants we were well and truly othered in way that doesn't happen in other trials. I've visited criminal courts on several other occasions though never previously linked to a defendant. It was stage I was even accused of grafftying the ladies loos.

it Sia. postcode lottery as to whether you are convicted or not - your solicitors knows which District Judges convict and which acquit - my DC wasn't entitled to a jury trial even though he could have been sentenced to one year in prison. At my DC's trial they were all allowed to make a statement about why they had participated in the march. Six defendants were on trial that day. They all spoke very articulately and with intellectual rigour. I'd prefer to have them running the country than many politicians. My DC spoke about the impact of flooding, about how we had participated in the Friday school strikes, about how he is a Quaker and how over centuries Quakers (and others) had taken a stand on many societal issues that were considered radical at the time and now are accepted as normal practice. Role of women, antisemitism & the Kinder transport, homosexuality, apartheid, civil rights in the US are just some.

The JSO marchers completely appreciate they are causing disruption - that is the purpose as a mechanism to raise awareness. I completely appreciate this is inconvenient to many caught up and for some causes missing very important appointments and family events. I am not in favour of damaging property and the slow walkers were not doing that.

This disruption does though need to be balanced against the existential threat to society from the climate emergency. As some previous posters have mentioned the disruption that has been caused by the climate emergency is already high and will only escalate over the next couple of decades. We ourselves live in an area very heavily affected by floods. Thousands of people suffer a lot more than being late for an appointment due to floods when their home is made uninhabitable. Hundreds of thousands of people are being displaced each year due to climate change and this is causing regional tension and conflict and affecting the UK with the increased numbers of displaced persons. and on a more day to day matter many disrupted by JSO protests forget that so often the M25 and other roads are blocked by sheer wright of traffic or an accident or road works - all a failure of the government to invest in affordable working public transport.

Closer to home just this week Spain is saying that their tourism sector is at risk because it is not safe for tourists to visit many traditional beach resorts in the summer.

Back the trial of the five with the long jail sentences Michel Forst the UN Rapporteur on Environmental Defenders has issued the following statement on the sentence of one of the five convicted for participating in the Zoom Call. 1000 señor public figures including the Archbishop of Canterbury have asked the Attorney General to review the sentences.

unece.org/sites/default/files/2024-07/ACSR_C_2024_26_UK_SR_EnvDefenders_public_statement_18.07.2024.pdf

This is a super complex issue - hard to unpick and requires governments to produce leadership separately and collectively rather than be in hoc to the oil and gas corporates who inevitably have vested interests.

My DC has just graduated and is planning a career working in public service with deprived families. He will now for the next 11 years have to declare a conviction for walking along a road. 2 years ago this wouldn't have been a recordable offence. In my view the last government weaponised environmental protest to protect their interests and the financial interests of their buddies. Instead they could have invested in address the issue of climate change and implemented the measures their own Climate Change Committee recommended.

There are plenty of brilliant scientists and policy advisors working hard on climate change but they are too easily ignored when it isn't in the interests of the government of the day. I have worked alongside cabinet ministers and other ministers and am acutely aware of the dither and delay in the system. Yes Minister is a massive understand of the reality.

While JSO's approach isn't how I seek to deliver change after two days in court I came away with new found respect for peaceful climate activists.

Please do consider this matter in the round before judging climate activists.

I'm sorry, but they are being judged on their own actions. As a mother of one of them, I'm sure you will understand that you are unable to be unbiased.

If you really want them to get their message across, then I suggest you try to persuade them to use different methods. When a lot of the general public are actually happy that you've been sent to prison for a significant time, it's time to recognise what you are doing is actually counterproductive.

I assume the extra security in court is due to their constant attempts to disrupt proceedings. Again, the consequence of their own actions.

NearlyAugust · 28/07/2024 20:44

Out of internet @JSOmother, has the recent prison sentence of his friends made him think twice about causing chaos in future "protests"?

User8646382 · 28/07/2024 20:46

What blue light policy? We’ve all seen the news - we all know this is a lie. Very sorry that your amazing “DC” who plans to devote his life to the “deprived”, now has to declare his conviction for the next 11 years, but thems the breaks when you’re sent to prison, I’m afraid. Didn’t you explain this to him when he was growing up?

lionsleepstonight · 28/07/2024 21:05

Karma is a bitch.

ClaraLaraBow · 28/07/2024 21:06

Interesting that the parents of these kids are coming across a bit deluded too. If my daughter got mixed up in these bratty little cabarets I'd be so frustrated, with HER!

Id support her going to court but I would make it clear to anybody who asked that I was disappointed that she'd done this and sorry for the inconvenience caused.

but listening to the parents, I'm thinking .......Brown cats, brown kittens.

Izzynohopanda · 28/07/2024 21:08

User8646382 · 28/07/2024 20:46

What blue light policy? We’ve all seen the news - we all know this is a lie. Very sorry that your amazing “DC” who plans to devote his life to the “deprived”, now has to declare his conviction for the next 11 years, but thems the breaks when you’re sent to prison, I’m afraid. Didn’t you explain this to him when he was growing up?

I’m guessing that when a blue light (ie police) , you disperse?

Citrusandginger · 28/07/2024 21:21

I don't understand the relevance of 11 years. The only way I can see that being relevant is if an adult, not a youth, was given a 4 year sentence of imprisonment which has a 7 year disposal period. Which isn't what you are describing.

Allfur · 28/07/2024 21:25

PeachSnake · 28/07/2024 19:47

Yep, I think on reflection that when I said it should have been a lot longer sentence could have been more sensibly put, 4 years is plenty and she'll hopefully get out sooner and become law abiding!😊

Or the opposite

User8646382 · 28/07/2024 21:28

Izzynohopanda · 28/07/2024 21:08

I’m guessing that when a blue light (ie police) , you disperse?

Which doesn’t happen, as we’ve all seen the footage of these posh idiots being dragged into police vans so ambulances can get through.

You want my opinion, they’re all terrified of the other debate about white privilege and this is all a big distraction from that. Let’s face it, most of us in this country are the descendants of potato pickers and maids. It’s only the likes of them who have benefited from any privilege and the truth hurts.

@JSOmother - next time, tell your kid to donate some of his monthly allowance to charity or something (not that the “deprived” will ever see a penny of it, but it might make him feel better), save all this.

Toooldforthis36 · 28/07/2024 21:34
Learn Find Out GIF

Looking for a tiny violin….

JSOmother · 28/07/2024 21:37

Izzynohopanda · 28/07/2024 21:08

I’m guessing that when a blue light (ie police) , you disperse?

Yes, as soon there is a blue light they move off the road and move onto the payment. And I watched the footage and that it was exactly what happened in the case of the march my DC was on.

JSOmother · 28/07/2024 21:40

Citrusandginger · 28/07/2024 21:21

I don't understand the relevance of 11 years. The only way I can see that being relevant is if an adult, not a youth, was given a 4 year sentence of imprisonment which has a 7 year disposal period. Which isn't what you are describing.

My DC was given a 12 month conditional discharge which is spent after 12 months. It will though appear on enhanced DBS checks for 11 years.

OnAndOnAndonAgain · 28/07/2024 21:54

JSOmother · 28/07/2024 21:40

My DC was given a 12 month conditional discharge which is spent after 12 months. It will though appear on enhanced DBS checks for 11 years.

Your sons an idiot as well

Izzynohopanda · 28/07/2024 22:00

JSOmother · 28/07/2024 21:40

My DC was given a 12 month conditional discharge which is spent after 12 months. It will though appear on enhanced DBS checks for 11 years.

If he plans to work with deprived families, then having a conviction on his dbs check may work against him.

JSOmother · 28/07/2024 23:04

Izzynohopanda · 28/07/2024 22:00

If he plans to work with deprived families, then having a conviction on his dbs check may work against him.

It may and that is the consequence he has to live with. Interestingly most people we know who work in social services don't see it as a problem as long as he's open up front about it.

AllPrincessAnneshorses · 28/07/2024 23:55

macaroniandcheeze · 26/07/2024 14:23

Mumsnet would have hated Emily Wilding Davison

Who achieved precisely nothing politically. It's a comforting myth that she somehow magically changed things.

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