I genuinely want pro-VAT people to answer these two questions

[Seenandheard]

(1) Do you realise that a private school child saves the tax payer/government thousands of pounds per year by not taking up a space in state school? Not to mention the space in the classroom/competition for places? (Do you care about this point or gloss over it in your minds?!)

(2) Do ypu realise that taxing education is illegal in the EU?

Yes or no to both points, please.

I do not want reams of uninformed angry opinions. I don't want this to turn into a multi page thread/bun fight. I just want to understand whether people realise these two points, really, truly understand them. Because it seems to me that there is a mentality of "they're getting a tax break" (WRONG) or "they're taking something away from my child" (WRONG) or "they can afford it so they can spread their wealth a bit" (I'm not going into the fact that my family spend more on taxes than Nordic countries, who have a far, far higher standard of living. We give so much, get almost nothing in return- but apparently we need to give more. More. More.)

I think my deep rooted anger here is to do with people's attitudes and uninformed opinions more than the policy itself. I need to know if people are aware of the facts.

OP, you are such a poor and aggressive advocate for your position.

Demanding that people answer the questions in the way that you want is not the argument slam dunk you think it is.

It really isn't and you really don't understand the Labour Party or why they are doing these things if you think they would put VAT on any of the things you have listed.

I worry that a lot of kids in the smaller private schools are there because they have SEN and were being broken by the sheer size of state mainstream. Parents working 2 jobs to pay primary fees, hoping their kids will get EHCPs (which takes around a year now even if the LA play ball, and then usually an appeal taking another year) before they reach secondary.

VAT won't affect EHCP funded kids. But I think a child who has proven SEN above a DLA medium rate threshold should also be exempt, because those kids can't usually attend state mainstream for sensory reasons, or staff ratios. It's not a choice for those parents. Autistic kids are 46 times more likely to suffer from school distress, and small independents and home education are swallowing up a lot of the slack.

Not all the kids in private schools are little Araminta on her pony.

(1)Do you realise that a private school child saves the tax payer/government thousands of pounds per year by not taking up a space in state school?

It doesn't. It costs far more to the tax payer/government/society/world if the most educated/talented/intelligent children aren't nurtured. Think about all the medical innovations/science/etc. etc. that has been lost because someone exceptional was passed over for someone unexceptional who had affluent parents

I imagine a lot of Telegraph and Mail readers did not envisage VAT on school fees being the sort of control they voted Brexit for.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

1. Yes
2. Yes, but as others have said, it has no relevance here due to Brexit.

I have been a state school teacher for nearly 26 years so anything that can channel more money into the state sector I will support. Teaching under a Labour government was idyllic compared to the last 14 years!

I am against private schools and private healthCARE.

Your argument that it is better for our state school kids that yours go to private schools (because it frees up funding) is dishonest really. You are saying it is to our children’s advantage if your children go to private schools!!

You send your kids to private schools to give them a huge advantage over state school children based on your ability to afford it . It is not to our children’s advantage.

i would like the UK to be more of a meritocracy and i want the wealthy and the politicians to have a vested interest in the state school system rather than being able to opt out.

I am furious that politicians get to decide how my children’s schools are run and how much funding they receive when it does not effect their children. If they underfund schools their children’s education should be underfunded because of it.

i don’t think that the wealthy and politicians should be able to pay to bypass it

i think they should ban private schools completely. then you wouldn’t have to worry about VAT

1. Yes, I am aware that sending your children to private school saves the state sector an amount of money. So what? Do you want a medal or something? I am also aware that the "research" that indicates there'll be a landslide of private school parents pulling their kids out and sending them to state schools is scare-mongering nonsense.
2. OK. And?

I am astounded that we may have finally found one good thing that’s come out of brexit.

well, i don't care. I have been hugely affected by Brexit and told to suck it up. So - meh. If you wanted EU regulations you could have stayed in. You didn't so the private school people can suck it up.

I saw the very angry post by the mum of a privately schooled SEN child. I have a lot of sympathy for your situation. SEN provision is something that needs to be improved greatly, but not by using private provision.

My SEN DS has been right through private school

Never been on a pony

Never been on a ski slope

Not been on holiday for 5 years

As pp points out, most are not "Araminta on her pony". It's ignorant horse shit to think that private schools are full of people like that.

I agree with you somewhat there.

I don’t expect people to care about things that impact me, why would I? Am I asking them to?

in your opinion it is not long overdue but in mine it is. Private schools are not charities and are optional.

other European countries can do what they like, not interested but I am interested in the increasing of funds to improve education standard in the UK.

(1) Do you realise that a private school child saves the tax payer/government thousands of pounds per year by not taking up a space in state school? Not to mention the space in the classroom/competition for places? (Do you care about this point or gloss over it in your minds?!)

This point is pure propaganda that assumes we can’t do maths for economies of scale and are oblivious to the fact that state schools are suffering or closing because the number of pupils are dropping too much and too fast from now to 2030.

(2) Do ypu realise that taxing education is illegal in the EU?

Yes and so what? We aren’t in the EU.

I can’t wait for the state sector to be completely transformed by this! No more issues with state education!

(People are going to be rather disappointed when these won’t happen).

The important thing is they're around a higher percentage of people who ski than the average state school. This will stand them in greater stead later in life where they can continue to propagate working in banks and going on more ski holidays.

Now imagine instead if connections and bonding was made at an early age over what mathematical formula you can solve or what poetry you can write which actually got you into that school over what mummy and daddy earns and you might see what the problem is.

It is free at the point of service.
The ‘state funded’ plainly refers to the fact that it is government funded and everyone knows how governments get their funds.

Can we please refrain from the “I haven’t been on holiday” to fund education argument? One holiday isn’t the same cost as a year of fees.

This isn’t meant to transform the state sector. You’re not very bright if you think that is why we want people to pay a fairer share of taxes.

I’m waiting for the ‘We went without Sky TV’ 😝

tax the only people who are 100% guaranteed not to benefit from the tax (ie those with kids at private school).

@Tgjjl - surely everyone benefits from state education. That’s why it is provided by the state. It isn’t just the parents of pupils who benefit from a literate, well educated, inventive, creative population. Education benefits the whole of society.

The problem really is that we really could have had no idea before the election that Starmer would introduce this because at that point he had no plan. Therefore I think we really ought to have a new vote on the matter.

After 14 years of feeling devalued by the Tories, I’m just glad that the Labour are even considering policies to help state schools!

That sounds like I'm alright sod the rest ....the rest have voted to help solve the problem