My dh has been messaging a colleague. Please can I have some practical and moral support

[PleaseVipersHelpMe]

NC but been here forever. Not really sure why as he would recognise the whole thing in an instant but I need the help and I’d rather he didn’t know. Please can I ask for some support?

I’m on holiday and finally plucked to the courage to ask my dh to let me see his phone. Told him it’s because I was feeling jealous of this woman (true). He let me, but obviously didn’t realise that he has to delete his deleted messages from the recently deleted file and I found quite a lot but only up till about 3 months ago, nothing before. Him telling her that he misses her. Texting when he was away telling me how much he misses me. Telling her that she’s one of the greatest people he has ever met. That he wants her in his life. Then arranging to pick her up from her house on his mid-life crisis car that i stupidly encouraged him to treat himself to. I feel so fucking stupid.

I took screenshots of everything and send them to myself but he’s insisting that nothing happened, that she was just his friend and he’s crossed the line but no affair. I haven’t found anything in emails or what’s app either. Is there anywhere else I can check without alerting him. I have full access to bank accounts and nothing untoward there so far but we don’t have online banking for one account (I can check that when I get home).

I feel so betrayed but the fact that he’s lying to me is worse. He’s treating me like an idiot. He insinuated in the texts that he was going to get her a company car but is saying he hasn’t actually done it. Funnily enough emails seem to be missing re this. He’s clearly been deleting calls from his call log but I don’t know whew do look to find them and I’m pretty sure they will be all gone now if not before. I know he’s lying is there anywhere I can look to find evidence of this? He won’t let me have the phone without him being there now.

I know it won’t make me feel better but it will make me feel like I’ve outsmarted him a bit and I wave him to feel as on edge as I do. I feel like I’ve been punched in the stomach and I’m trying to be normal for the kids but I’ve just been sick. I’m supposed to go out for fucking dinner with them all now and be normal. I‘m trying so hard to not upset the kids, they deserve better. This is horrendous. I’ve honestly told so many women on here what to do in this situation but I can’t believe this has happened to me. How could he do this. Any why does he think that shagging her is worse than lying to me? Thanks in advance for any help, and for reading ny ridiculous essay. I will respond to and replies as and when I can after dinner.

It’s easy for others to judge on here ‘you said you were ending it and you haven’t’ ‘you’re faking it in front of the kids’

These things don’t happen in an instant, it’s not a TV show where you pack DH’s suitcase and send him out the door. It can take months, that’s real life. You’ll change your mind 1000 times, you’ll have days where the pain in your chest feels like a heart attack, and days where you feel like everything’s fine and you’re over it.

OP I’d use this thread as a little diary to let things out or to connect with others who have suffered similar, but I don’t think you’re obliged to react to the people who want to pick everything apart. Your life is not a book or movie plot open to be dissected.

@summerdress81 do you think that is helpful?? Op is not in denial, she knows exactly what has been done to her. It is less than 7 weeks ago - why do you feel the need to ram it down her throat?

OP isn't accountable to any of us here and has a right to consider decisions that she is making in her own life.

Did you read her reply to you ? She said they know there is issues but no more. I'm sure the op has thought of all you are asking her but at the end of the day it is her decision.

Im not sure how you think these comments are helpful. OP is living this, this is her day to day. Her reality. Her family. She has kids, she has a whole life tangled up in this. What this man decided to do is vile, yeah, and what he deserves is too horrible for me to type here, but OP is making the decision she needs to, in her own time in the way that works for her. By no means is she forgiving, forgetting, “desperate” as you put it to keep the peace or whatever - she’s just found out about something that has blown her whole world apart, and she’s finding her footing and trying to work out the best next steps.
Shows you have led a very sheltered life if you cannot understand this - or you have a very arrogant outlook if you think it’s your place to judge.
Also, OPs marriage and her husbands come-uppance is nothing to do with you and will be figured out by the two of them, not you. Back off, it’s not your place.
Stop it with the nasty judgemental comments, please. It makes you look very heartless.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I’m so sorry you went through this and with a much younger child too. They are so very rubbish with hiding things. I have often wondered if dh is actually very stupid or if he just doesn’t actually think I would look for the evidence.

I have pushed hard for answers but if I’m honest it hasn’t really helped. I’ve found the start of the ‘friendship’ and when lines started to be crossed. I have also seen that he backed away from it on a number of occasions over the years and that she was extremely flirty in the earlier messages which helped the whole thing make more sense as she wasn’t particularly forthcoming in the most recent messages - unless she was after the cars. The older messages make it apparent she’s been working on that for the last three years. Also they definitely haven’t slept together or been out as far as I can see at any point over this period.

None of that changes the fact that he did what he did. That he pursued another woman to make himself feel good and that he wanted to be the big man and was prepared to disregard my potential feelings about it because it was easier. It’s also been difficult to see just how well they got along. They share a sense of humour and there were lots of in-jokes which has been hard to face. I often wish I didn’t know the minutiae as that’s what keeps me awake at night. It does help that he has fully accepted responsibility and now understands the seriousness of what he has done. There may not have been physical contact but it definitely was an affair.

I know exactly what you mean about part of your love for him dying. I do still love dh but I have lost some respect for him which isn’t a nice place to be. I thought he was better than this.

You know could still choose to leave if you wanted. You stayed because it worked for you and the family at the time but you don’t have to stay forever. You still have options. Of course if you are happy and want to stay that’s a very different scenario. If you’re unsure and you haven’t done it before I would recommend therapy. It’s helpful to talk things out with a stranger. Good luck and thank you again for your perspective.

Hello @Freeme31, thanks for the kind words and thoughts.

Thee has been no contact at all aside from a couple of essential work emails which he has always sent from home in front of me. Most requests for her now go via her new boss but he has been on holiday. She barely responds at all unless absolutely necessary and a colleague has apparently said that she is looking for another role. He does finally understand the seriousness of what he has done and is taking steps to make things up to me. I’ve had access to everything I requested including phone records and company credit card statements. I was also able to reinstate WhatsApp on the device he deleted messages from and there was literally nothing of note in the messages - just mindless chit chat.

I wholeheartedly agree that I shouldn’t have had to find the messages but I think dh has a fear of showing/telling me anything lest I unleash more questions on him. He still hates talking about it, more so now he is ashamed of himself, but he does make the effort to answer me truthfully and with sufficient detail.

It was an over the line friendship only at that stage and it seems clear that she liked him (which he didn’t say and even now says he didn’t realise) but that supports everything he has told me and also makes more sense of why he knew he could push his luck with her as she wasn’t overly responsive on the most recent texts (unless it was about the car). I think he’s just trying to avoid even more discussion. In his defence (which doesn’t happen often lately) he did say it had been going on for a long time. I interpreted that as after dm passing as I didn’t like to think of him speaking to her then and in fairness, it’s clear that he stopped then as any messages from that period are perfunctory at best. But it did start back up again in the previous vein towards the end of last year.

It may have been a genuine friendship, but it was always over the line. There was one instance when they were away in a group for work one evening and ow was arriving later and literally pepper potting dh with texts (that he didn’t respond to) very clearly insinuating, although not outright saying, that she would like to see him alone. Dh was not staying over (he said that in the texts and it’s his usual practice - he rarely sleeps away from home for work) but given what she was saying I was convinced that they must have spoken by phone and at least met up that night as I couldn’t understand why she was being so blatant if not. Dh denied it and insisted that he had come straight home and said he could be sure of that because he had never once seen her outside of work except for the car collection/ride in his knob mobile. I looked at the texts/call log to me and he had text to let me know when he was leaving, said he’d ring me when he was on the main road and was on the phone to me in the car driving home as usual (for over an hour) at the time she had been sending most of the texts. There was no call to her. He said that he didn’t realise what was happening but ‘with hindsight it does seem as if she was hinting’.

He has said again that it was only an ego boost - he said he liked knowing someone liked him - and he liked being able to chat with her but he genuinely never wanted anything to happen. The messages do support that as there is no indication of anything other than over familiarity until the final texts (which is all bad enough). He has also stated that he chose to pursue her out of anger towards me which was very upsetting but I believe it as it’s what I had felt all along. Now I have to decide whether or not I believe that he wasn’t intending to take it further even though he was messaging her. Mind fuck indeed.

Thank you, for your kind words. My feelings have been every which way and it is difficult to make long term decisions.

The diary idea is great and people have for the most part been very supportive and helpful. I keep meaning to read back and haven’t got around to it yet but I think I’ll make time to do it.

Thank you @Buildingthefuture. I am very aware of everything that’s happened but doing ok. I’m hoping that given some time I can think a bit more clearly and make some decisions but I’m not there yet.

Thank you for your kindness.

Thank you for your support, I think I’m glad I missed these posts!

I am so sorry to read this @PleaseVipersHelpMe . I am only part way through as something you said really rang. He HAS hurt them as well as you. You are their mum and things will never be the same again for you. Eventually they will realise their dad has hurt their mum and that hurts them.

i was married for nearly 17 years, together for 20 when H confessed to an emotional affair. It soon became apparent it was physical and from the first hello to his confessing was just over a year. Somehow having sex with her made him realise it was wrong 🙄. I suspect the fact she wasn't stable and the sex was shite helped. He was a pig about her too. Stupid dickhead I am sure thought slagging her off would endear him to me. My divorce came through just after what would have been our 25th wedding anniversary. I stayed for all those years then split over something else that was much worse.

The kids were 18, nearly 20 and 22 when we split and he has been a diabolical father with them. After over a year apparently he now wants to put more effort in. It has been all about his struggle, anxiety and mental health. Not once asked them how they are. Lied to my eldest about why we split and then when he finally decided to speak to them HE BLAMED ME FOR THE DIVORCE.

They are doing better than I would have expected as am I.

I would play dirty. Tell him there's a chance you can get through this and stay together but you want to know absolutely everything. The divorce him. When he said you tricked him or lied or deceived him etc just look him in the eye and say It's not nice when that happens is it?

Hi OP - Glad to hear there has been no contact hopefully she too has got the message and him cutting her off so bluntly and you seeing/reading whatsapp’s and there were no declarations of “love” just lots of “mindless chit-chat” (how very boring/inadequate they both are) Also her giving him the come-on early and him not taking her up on any of it - Yes you have to decide if you want to believe him when he says he didn’t want to take it further (the last texts before he was caught) but do you really think he would have? Considering he could have done so in the previous 4 years. Maybe it was all just part of his ego boost and stringing her along so he could think of himself as “the big I AM” he probably never would have had the guts to taken it further to a physical relationship. Luckily it never got to that and he has more recently shown you when the chips are down that she really meant nothing to him and because he now grasps the seriousness of his immature/ego induced actions hopefully goes some way to ease your hurt and pain
Continue to have access to everything You request such as phone records and company credit card statements you should/can do this until your satisfied you want to stop - you have every right. Hopefully she has cottoned on and is embarrassed/ashamed of her role/behaviour in this and has the decency to move on to new employment (god and to think you felt sorry for her) but not to another role in the company.

I agree that your dh probably has a fear of showing/telling you anything incase you unleash more questions on him. Again this is all part of his shame/guilt/immaturity (hopefully he’s suffering remember true shame & guilt will have a negative effect on him and who he thought he was) but he has to understand that for you to move forward he still has to talking about it, when ever you want snd it’s his job to be open and honest at your whim if you are to heal. Do you think he fully grasps this?
I think the key if you decide to stay in the marriage is for you both to recognise this is a “new marriage” and communication is key which means both of you have to be able to say what you feel/need and be vulnerable with each other. You will not be at this stage yet but you may start to feel resentment in the future and that’s a difficult path to walk (we will all be here for you if you need it) . Alway know you can walk away anytime and he also has to know you can walk away anytime. You will never feel the same about him or the marriage but think carefully as you have a lot to give up and as he found out the grass is not always greener. Please make yourself a priority going forward regardless of what choice you make.

Thank you for this. You really seem to understand the predicament I find myself in.

I have to say, before this happened I would have thought I’d be straight out the door without a backward glance after something like this. In reality it’s not as easy as that. For the most part we’ve had a happy marriage and it’s difficult to walk away from that without at least giving it my best shot. I’m not desperate (although in the beginning I definitely felt it) and it may not work out but I feel that I need to try.

Whatever happens my dh is remorseful and feels terrible now that he realises just what he has done. He’s also mortified at how stupid he has been and now that he’s out of it things are looking a lot more clear to him. I know him well enough to know that is genuine. Whether we stay together or separate he has to live with that knowledge. To me, that is his comeuppance.

I’m so sorry for what you went through, it sounds really tough. I hope things are better for you now.

A lot has happened since this and the kids now know we’re having issues, although they don’t know what the issues are. I’d agree that this likely has been damaging for them in that however careful we were, they must have felt the uncertainty. We’re not arguing as much now, even when we’re alone and are managing to mostly have calm discussions. We try and be very careful not to blame each other. Things still aren’t back to normal but we’re both trying.

If we did get to a stage where a divorce was our only option I think I would have to tell him. I’d struggle to keep something that big to myself and I don’t think it would be right to blindside him. He has hurt me a lot but I try and stay away from tit for tat (not always successfully).

My kids have all said they would rather know why we are divorced than be wondering @PleaseVipersHelpMe . But I never thought I would have to tell them. I wanted to protect them by keeping his secret. But one child asked and I wouldn't lie to my kids.

Do what feels right. But you have to consider yourself as well.

We all have our ideas about what we’d do in situations like yours, but when it comes down to it, it’s rarely so black and white. It’s obvious from your posts that you’re far from “desperate” - and that you’re smart, patient, secure enough to not base this entire decision on your own ego or to react in anger, and instead to reflect on the whole thing from all angles.
You’ll make the right choice, whether that be in a day, a week, a month or more; you’ll know in time what you want to do and I have no doubt you’ll do whatever you see fit!! And good on ya, because at the end of the day, you’re living this. We can all put in our two cents, advise or even throw snide little insults when your actions don’t match our ideals (I’m a bit gutted I missed SummerDress’s words of wisdom before they were deleted by MNHQ, I’m sure they were eye opening) but what matters is that you do what works for you. Unapologetically. You’re the judge in this situation. I think you’re doing an awesome job of it - I applaud you for it!
Keep doing whatever works for you, OP - and change it when it doesn’t! There are a hell of a lot of ppl here backing you ☺️

More excellent advice, thank you. I agree with every word of this.

Dh has said similar about there being nothing for 4 years and he has pointed out that even in the last three weeks of the whole sorry story there were no arrangements to meet or to see her aside from the pick up/car collection which he said he justified as work contact. I want to believe him but I can’t deny that the reality of how well they got along doesn’t sting. He never said a word. When other friends said something that I would find amusing he would tell me but he never mentioned any of their conversations at all. He said it was because he knew I wouldn’t approve but that he had convinced himself that was my problem as he wasn’t actually doing anything wrong because he didn’t fancy her. Now he realises how damaging that was but the fact he kept it a secret for years really hurts.

I do also feel very differently about her now. I’d almost seen her as an innocent victim dragged into dh’s mid life crisis, but from the previous messages it’s clear that she was initially the main instigator and she brought the personal element into it. That doesn’t excuse dh as he should have seen this and stopped it in its tracks back then and he didn’t. He has demonstrated clearly that she isn’t that important to him but that begs the question of if that is the case why was he was willing to lie to me to protect the ‘friendship’ for all of these years. Whatever happens now I am glad this came to a head as she could have been in the background for many years to come casting a shadow over our relationship.

I have said that I need access to emails/phone etc for the foreseeable future and I have logins for everything. He does understand that he needs to talk and answer all of my questions now, however repetitive, and I finally feel that I’m getting the truth. It doesn’t always make me feel better but I need to know.

I think creating this ‘new marriage’ is the scariest thing, but I know it could be beneficial to us both to look at our behaviour. I can clearly see where I have fallen short and been overly critical and almost unkind at times. Dh has generally been a very good husband but has let me down greatly with his actions in this situation. I’m not sure if I can get over this yet but I know that he regrets his choices. We’ve both made mistakes and I need to try.

Thank you again for sharing your wisdom. It’s very much appreciated.

I agree I shouldn’t lie to them. Fortunately any questions at this stage have allowed us to be quite vague in our responses.

I’m honestly not trying to protect him, but I do want to protect their image of him. He is honestly a great dad and the kids adore him. He’s made a mistake but as they get older they will come to realise that he isn’t infallible on their own accord as we all do with our parents. I don’t want to be the one to have to tell them that now.

Such a lovely kind post, thank you so much.

I should point out that I have definitely reacted in anger about this many times! But it really didn’t help which is why I realised I need to take things slowly and really consider all of the options before coming to a final decision. I really appreciate your support and that of all of you ‘strangers from the internet’ as dh would say. You may not be known to me in real life but I will never forget the support, advice and kindness I’ve received on here. Thank you again.

I used to frequent the Surviving Infidelity boards many years ago when I was trying to process a bad relationship. A term I remember very clearly from the ‘wayward spouses’ forums was ‘the fog’. Almost all of them would describe very clearly this mindset of an affair fog and what it felt like to come out of it. I don’t know what this fog feels like, but I imagine it likely forms as a protective layer to their own psyche, and allows them to act with behaviours and motivations and not think of themselves as cruel people.

It strikes me that this may be what your husband is emerging from. The crux of the matter is, which is subjective, is whether you can forgive your spouse entering the fog in the first place and whether you believe they will not enter it again.

You sound like a wonderful parent. It’s very difficult to know how to handle children in this situation but I do agree your marital issues don’t need to be aired to them in any form.

@PleaseVipersHelpMe Your reply at 7.47am hit home for me. He risked his marriage for someone he didn't even fancy? Really? Just like mine risked everything for a woman he didn't want anything to do with once they had had sex over a two week period for three meet ups. It doesn't make it any better, it makes it much worse

As for wanting to protect the image of him, why?

It is more than making a mistake. He has done all this and then when you've discussed it he's lied. Then lied again. Then lied again. Then got annoyed and stroppy.

If he did all this in the first weeks of dating would you see him again? If not then don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy nor the nonsense of staying for the kids. It's never the right thing to do if it makes you unhappy