To be glad that the VAT on school fees

[Shaketherombooga]

Is now going to be happening in January? what’s the point in stalling it? I think it’s one of many decisions that we just need to get in with.

YABU - it’s SO unfair. Labour hates ‘strivers’ etc etc

YANBU - Yup, Labour said they are taking away tax breaks for private schools, so let’s get on with it.

I mean, I know we do. Material objects, much more satisfying than a well educated,well rounded happy at school child 😅
All us state school parents, refusing to ‘strive’…

I know many people, us included, who could afford to ‘go private’ but decided not to.

The timing is very difficult. Those who can’t afford the VAT increase will want to move their children to a state school to coincide with it being introduced. Ideally this would be at the start of a new school year.

Bringing it in in January means that either people move their children halfway through the year or have to swallow the cost until the end of the academic year. Schools have broken up now so it won’t be possible to move children at the start of the academic year before the VAT is introduced.

I cant afford for my child to go to private school (well possibly at a massive stretch but certainly not with VAT on top). I don’t see the point when we have a good secondary school nearby (although I appreciate that everyone doesn’t have that option). I do see that it will only really impact the middle class people who can only just afford it, but whatever the cost of private education there is still a line in the sand somewhere. There will always be people who can afford it and others (like me) where it is just out of reach. This just moves the line slightly (a bit more out of reach for some but not most who are already in the private system). I do feel sorry for kids who will have to withdraw from their schools though so I hope it’s done in a phased manner to minimise the impact. I don’t feel the need for them to “get on with it” quickly.

I know local families with children in private schools because they didn't get a place in a decent state school. They don't have lots of money and struggled to afford it. Our state school is currently full for Years 7/8, zero spaces left, same as two other good schools in the area. Even the failing school only has a handful of spaces, but I can't imagine someone from the private sector agreeing to send their children there.

Can someone clarify, is the policy adding VAT to school fees, or ending the tax break for private schools? Because in my mind they amount to different things.

The former, every childs school fees will increase by 20% meaning that the parents are effectively paying an extra tax, the latter means private schools will need to submit some sort of tax return like other business and will have to pay a tax bill, but they will also be able to offset their income against their output - so they would have to be VAT registered?

I could be way way off with what I'm thinking though, but surely if a school is making profit then it should pay tax surely? So it would be unfair for this cost to be passed on to parents and the schools to keep making profits?

@Meowzabubz
Nobody who is paying 40k+ a year is taking their children out of their schools and putting them into public school

When you refer to public schools, do you mean state schools?
In UK public schools and private schools are independent schools.

The government could just raise the per-pupil funding to make smaller class sizes financially viable. Class sizes of 20 would result in more attention for each pupil and less marking for the teacher. That would actually improve matters in state schools.

But you'd rather that we just fill classes back up so that they remain the largest in Europe?

Good chatbot

This is a really good summary.

There is still a line in the sand, it's just shifting up the economic ladder a bit. No real change for the vast majority of people.

What's the saying? To the privileged, equality feels like oppression?

Schools fees are currently exempt from VAT.

The exemption is being scrapped. VAT will be charged on fees.

Schools can chose to absorb some of those costs. Some will and some won't.

What is the purpose of this thread? Genuinely. It’s happening. Jan or Sept 25. Or is it just a gloat post?

I have no skin in the game and no kids at school. Can’t wait to see state schools wonderfully-funded and working perfectly within a couple of years from this VAT funding though!! I wouldn’t hold your breath ;-)

@Ciri

Academically, there will likely be an improvement in state schools because more parents from higher socio-economic groups will now care very much about their local primary and comp. They will then vote, petition and push the Government to keep their promise to better fund educationAcademically, there will likely be an improvement in state schools because more parents from higher socio-economic groups will now care very much about their local primary and comp. They will then vote, petition and push the Government to keep their promise to better fund education

This old chestnut yet again. You obviously consider private school parents to be superior beings who can rush in and wave a magic wand and hey presto, the state schools will all become brilliant.
What about the 93% of parents who send their children to state school? Do they just sit on their arses all day waiting for private school parents to magically improve their schools?

The majority of a private schools costs are its staff. So the only way to "cut their cloth" is to make staff redundant. I don't know why you would find any pleasure in that. And no, those staff won't be coming to your local state school. Many of them will be support staff who will have to look for work outside the education sector or teachers for which there is no shortage of in state schools (such as PE teachers.) And as for planning, yes many of us have planned for this. We just didn't plan for our mortgages doubling, the cost of power and fuel going through the roof etc. And the end of term, I witnessed a child in my DC's year heartbroken at having to leave his friends. He could not stop crying. There will be lots of other children in the same position. If you can find pleasure in that, you are sick.

It's a spite tax that was a vote winner because some poorer people are jealous of those that can afford to send their kids to private school. It's just something else to cause division and hate. It won't improve things in state schools. They can't magic up teachers, they can't attract bright young adults to a career in teaching with shit wages where they will get daily abuse. Until a government gets serious about addressing the huge problems in society like bad parenting and anti social behaviour nothing will change. But certain people will be happy because 'that'll serve people richer than me right'. It's pathetic.

There is no 'tax break'. Education is not currently taxable however it is provided so therefore private schools are not benefiting from a 'tax break'. Labour have presented this idea to manipulate popular opinion.

Do you genuinely think that everyone who thinks this is a good move is jealous? Even those of us who could afford private school?

not in my area there aren’t. Absolutely zero places for miles.

Primary schools around here are well under capacity. Bring it on, see what happens then. Ours could take another 30 in Reception now. Between a falling birth rate and no cheap houses for young families, we can only benefit from an exodus to state schools.

I don't believe that will happen. People don't pay just for an education, they pay for their child to be with certain people.

There's not a single local authority, anywhere in England and Wales that doesn't have spare capacity. It might not be in the schools you'd choose, but there are spaces.

Fine, charge Vat on private school fees if it makes you happy, very short sighted in my view and as someone pointed out it's just 'people pleaser tactics' and the reulting gain will not be what people think. The schools will reclaim around 40% of this Vat on expenses anyway. In order to balance the books they will cut out all of the things that they do for state school children like bursaries, use of sports and other facilities so the losers here are the state school children.

For the people that keep their kids in private education, they should be give a tax credit of the £5-7,000 that state school costs, now that would be fair!

Maybe eventually all of these people that have worked so hard to be sucessful with a good income will get sick to death of funding the people that have not made the effort and will change their position to more of the 'labour way'.....go part time, give up their jobs, the Governement will pay, Universal credit, free nursery places, etc etc

Not where I am. Parents at my children’s school have already made enquiries about space at their local schools. These schools are already oversubscribed so the local authority would need to arrange transport to get children to and from the schools which have capacity.

Glad to see "politics of envy" appear on the first page. It's always top of my bingo card list for VAT threads. Disappointing that nobody has talked about their sacrifice of driving a ten-year old car (which no state school parent would do of course).

It was in their manifesto, it's relatively easy to organise and should be a pretty straightforward way of raising some extra revenue. It's hardly surprising it will likely be brought in sooner rather than later. I would like to see any revenue raised ringfenced for the state education budget though.

No, the monied people would either send their kids abroad, or they'd get their kids into the good schools and pay for some extra tuition on the side.

There's no evidence that this will better the lot of everyone else.

As someone with no children, so no skin in this game, and who was state educated, I think it’s a ridiculous policy and I fundamentally disagree with it. What IS this desperate focus that so many people seem to have on those who they perceive “have more”? I find the entire “I can’t have it, so you shouldn’t either” attitude frankly alarming.
This policy will do nothing other than widen the social divide. The very rich will continue to privately educate their children and those who have skinned themselves to afford it will lose out. It absolutely IS the politics of envy.
So, I’ve no doubt labour will implement it asap and all you baying for it will be delighted. Possibly less delighted when you see that the relatively small amount of money it has raised has been squandered and will not benefit YOU at all. That’s ok though, as long as “the rich” don’t have something don’t.

Do you genuinely think that everyone who thinks this is a good move is jealous? Even those of us who could afford private school?

No, that why I said some, not all. Try reading.