To be glad that the VAT on school fees

[Shaketherombooga]

Is now going to be happening in January? what’s the point in stalling it? I think it’s one of many decisions that we just need to get in with.

YABU - it’s SO unfair. Labour hates ‘strivers’ etc etc

YANBU - Yup, Labour said they are taking away tax breaks for private schools, so let’s get on with it.

This thing about class sizes, comes up over and over BUT do people realise that in secondary the classes in state are also smaller? One DC is in a maths class of 12, the other is 18,
Science is 18 for lab work, German - 15, English 20
music even smaller… PE 25 big drops for individual sports or grows for inter house matches…
This matches across our city schools
Sure both DC’s form classes are 25/26 kids but that’s 20 mins in the morning for registration & assembly.

Its not the 8 or 10 to a class in privates, but genuinely HOW are you providing different opinions and proper debate or discussion for subjects like politics or philosophy or history or English etc with so few students anyway??

Well, I can only look at it from the perspective of my local area. Our local private school runs a scholarship programme where 25 boys and 25 girls get fully-paid scholarships every year, based on academic performance, paid for by the school's prize fund (the fund is a condition of its endowment). Those scholarships will be going away now, as will the state schools' free use of all their facilities, and the price fund will go exclusively to the paid-for students.

The only alternative for those children is a secondary school (which doesn't have a sixth form) which has never managed more than 30% GCSE passes at A-C, and an underperforming sixth form college which caters almost exclusively for GCSE catch-up and vocational courses, as well as a few obviously-cash-grab university degrees where the students barely even get time with a lecturer and are sat in front of online tutorials for most of the three years.

The presence of those highly-performing kids won't magically make the state secondary a good school - even if they manage to achieve the same results, it'll only bring the score up to 50% - but it will likely hamstring them and they'll still have no viable alternative in the area for A-levels, the school won't get enough extra funding to make up for the loss of the private school's facilities, and so every pupil already at that school will lose out.

For our local area, there is literally no up-side to this.

I'd be interested in understanding what tangible benefit there will be to state schools, rather than focusing on being thrilled at "rich people" being penalised. What's going to change and when ?

And you think all this will be fixed by charging VAT on school fees ?

Where's the plan ?

@Eviebeans what makes you think that each individual child with SEN or additional needs transferred from private will qualify for 6k SEN funding? Spoiler alert they won't. They will just join the legion of SEN DC in state school where the notional SEN budget is spent on group interventions for those not meeting progress. They won't get 6k just for them.

The criteria is crap but you made a choice on what you thought you could afford in time and money. Stay and fight or leave and go private. Some of us have no choice but to stay and fight often because no amount of money would be enough for a private school to accept DC and special schools don't accept DC who don't have an EHCP with no mainstream school that can meet need.

If they had high needs they would already have an EHCP and if state school could not meet need indi would be funded by the LA but this would usually be specialist. I suspect you would rather your children attend state school if you couldn't afford the VAT for a mainstream indi instead of specialist even if they met requirement (which they won't).

Some of us really have SEND children with an EHCP because of severe need. We stand in solidarity with parents who have transferred their DC because of unmet need but you don't seem to stand in solidarity with us. The parents who couldn't afford to leave for private, who have battled for EHCP at tribunal, who home educate because of illegal exclusion, but seem to want to use privilege to leap frog us. Why do you think your child is entitled to more than others with higher need?

Our private school has already said it won't pass on the VAT increase to us and instead will just cut all the communtiy work it does and also stop all means tested bursaries. So I couldn't care really when Labour bring in this rise. It really isn't going to have much effect on any of us, which I know is going to upset so many of you who were so desperate for it to make us struggle - sorry!

I find it amusing that the Telegraph is dead set against this policy when it wouldn't have been possible without their hard Brexit.

Indeed, it's the UK parliament using its new found sovereignty to deviate from the prohibition on VAT on school fees under EU law.

All I can say, if you voted for Brexit and have kids in private schools, is this:

You knew what you were voting for!

😂

I assume the budget which will introduce it will not be before the start of the Scottish schools in three weeks (?) time, so January makes sense. I was expecting August/September 2025.

Remember that the government is for the United Kingdom, and VAT is a reserved matter.

@PocketSand I think there could be an exemption for SEND schools.

State schools are undersubscribed where I am, in London, even the sought-after outstanding ones. For the first time in the last couple of years I’ve seen them advertising that they have vacancies, especially in the non-standard entry years. A few state schools have actually closed.

Youre assuming most parents who use private schools for their children voted for brexit. Our school actually had a vote on the eve of the decision. Only a handful of parents in the room voted leave.

Those who voted leave were mainly doctors who believed the money would go into the NHS...

Financially, the VAT on schools will go to the Treasury and the Government will as always decide to spend it on whatever they want. The Government has promised to fund education better, but who knows.

Academically, there will likely be an improvement in state schools because more parents from higher socio-economic groups will now care very much about their local primary and comp. They will then vote, petition and push the Government to keep their promise to better fund education.

It will overall narrow the attainment gap between state and private in the long run.

Not really sure what your point is- it was clearly in their manifesto and Labour won a landslide victory. Obviously most people are not going to think you are BU for being pleased about them getting on with it. You know that already from the election result.

The time to debate this was before the election.

Didn't they also say that they wouldn't diverge from EU law?

Yes, they should get on with it, this way the private schools will become more elitist, with less diversity and competition, leading to mediocre people going to top politics, journalism, etc., because whether you like it or not, private school alumnus dominate this country, look at politics, journalism, even Oscar winners. Good one, Labour!

Pointless thread. You got what you voted for. Time to shut up about it, or do you get something from rubbing it in?

I'm sure if this wonderful new world turns out to be correct then everyone will be delighted.

Personally I think the gap will widen. Private schools will become something that only the very wealthy can access.

I don’t get it people pay privately to educate there children private rather than have it funded out of the public purse
so can’t see the problem with it being vat free

if it was 40k a year that’s a potential loss of 8k in vat

so they put them back in public education that cost US about 7.5k

there quibbling about a few hundred pounds
not to mention the schools contribution to the economy employing people and supply chains

I think it just a case of we are a country that hate anyone having more than us

why can’t parents who pay private claim the 7.5k it would cost us in the public system then they could put this towards private fees

This has been repeated so often, but makes no sense. There are a million empty state school places. That's not disused classrooms, it's spaces in classes, with teachers, that already exisit. Falling rolls are a massive issue being faced by schools, with many facing closure and more struggling with the reduced funding, as a result of falling nunbers. Extra pupils is fantastic news for state schools.

What is your rationale? I am interested in how you think the gap will widen?
I agree private schools will become the reserve of the rich, but that by itself doesn’t mean the gap will widen. So how?

Not to argue with you, but to see how the dominoes might fall in a different path as I recognise I can’t predict the future and you may be right!

Funny how RR is already hinting about above inflation pay rises for the public sector and this measure is now being fast tracked. Same old Labour. After all her talk of being cautious and fiscally careful. Parents with children in the private sector need time to plan. This means children in crucial exam years having to change schools.

It's a nasty, calculated and spiteful dig at those who work hard and scrimp to try and do the best they can for their children. Not all private school pupils are from mega wealthy families, some people go without holidays, New cars, days out.
But that's labour, they don't want to see people doing well through their own hard work

It's not a tax break because parents who send their children to private school still pay taxes towards state schools as well as the private school fees. Also by their child going to a private school there is less burden on the state system.
All that will happen is that some parents will transfer to the state system instead and then hire private tutors to support their children in addition to the state education. That's what we did and it worked really well 🙂

Nobody who is paying 40k+ a year is taking their children out of their schools and putting them into public school. They will pay the VAT without a moment of hesitation. It's those paying in the 6-12k bracket that are going to struggle.

By doing this on January they would be forcing parents who can’t afford it to pay at least two terms. Reeves actually said this would not happen until September 2025. However, who can trust those disgusting lefties who come up with these policies of class war. Repulsive 🤢