To be glad that the VAT on school fees

[Shaketherombooga]

Is now going to be happening in January? what’s the point in stalling it? I think it’s one of many decisions that we just need to get in with.

YABU - it’s SO unfair. Labour hates ‘strivers’ etc etc

YANBU - Yup, Labour said they are taking away tax breaks for private schools, so let’s get on with it.

Education is exempt from VAT.

In the EU it is illegal to charge VAT on education but since Brexit the UK, in theory can charge VAT on education (although as we're still part of the ECHRs I'm not sure if it is legal or it will actually happen).

The upshot is the govt is planning to make private schools add VAT onto their fees. 25% of private schools already add VAT onto school fees though.

So this isn't about ending tax breaks, it's about making all private schools charge VAT which in most cases will lead to an increase in fees of 20%.

Yes you did, I stand corrected.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake so politely.

@Runbunny There aren't any spare places in several primary school year groups in my LEA. Schools are being asked (forced through the Fair Access Panel if I'm blunt) to go over PAN. It's a small city with a lot of need and very few private schools. I'm in favour of the VAT in case you wondered.

Which LA? Becuase I've done some work on this and there aren't any that don't have spaces. If they've arranged for schools to go over PAN, they've made places available.

As you say, there has always been a line between those who can afford and those who can't. The question is where do we want the line to be drawn? The OP would evidently prefer the line to be drawn at the point where only the super-rich can afford the best education. I'd prefer to widen availability of the best education.

Do you really expect me to put myself on here by saying where I live @Runbunny ?

Jesus, wept. Not jealous. No-One is jealous.
if anything the comments from private school parents just make us even more sure we made the right choice for our DCs.

Sorry but in areas of London that isn’t true. I consider a school more than 10 miles away to not be a local school. They are all massively over subscribed. No one should be travelling more than 10 miles to school. They will just have to squeeze them in - if 40 to a class then so bit it

Very few people will take their kids out of private schools.

For starters you can tell by the attitudes on here they don't want their kids mixing with the plebs.

Secondly private school numbers have been static for years. Despite big inflationary rises.

Speaking to someone who works in the sector last week she told me that most schools aren't concerned - none she knew of were planning cuts. She thinks it will mostly affect smaller prep schools and less well established schools.

Yes this is individuallly very annoying to private school parents. And yes there will be individual families that won't manage the individual increased costs.

The state system can cope. It can absorb refugees quickly. It can cope with some private school kids.

But you are purchasing a luxury and elite product and as such it is right that you pay the tax (VAT) due on that.

It's the right thing to do. I don't think anyone thinks that this will magically transform state schools. But it's a start. It's an injection of much needed cash. That's a good thing. More will be needed.

Anyway, spilt milk.
It’s happening.
Let’s get this through, then the next thing to look at is that ridiculous’charity’ status that so many schools have.

I think it's probably counts as short sighted to think people live in poverty because they haven't made the effort and don't work hard enough.

@Shaketherombooga if you are not jealous, why exactly do you care where other people educate their children? If the state is marvellous and fantastic, what is the problem?

What about the jobs for teachers in private schools if they are forced to close due to lack of pupils?
There are not enough jobs in state primary schools to support all the teachers that would have to look for jobs elsewhere. The retention crisis with teachers is much more of an issue in secondary school.

The parents of dc in private schools are not all incredibly wealthy.

By the way, where are these 6,500 people who are queueing up to be the extra teachers? You know they don't exist, right?

totally this! And even if they did exist now labour are rumoured to be increasing minimum wage to £15 an hour who the heck is going to train to be a teacher and run up 50k of student debt to be on the same wage as they’d get working in a shop?

There are always exceptions and some very genuine cases where families are truly struggling and maybe not getting the help that they need but I also think there is a very entiltled mindset to a lot of people.

Why is it ridiculous. My children’s schools do so many things with the local state schools which is part of the charitable remit. You have absolutely no idea. You just think oh those evil private schools doing nothing when actually if you researched you would find they do a lot. Maybe some more than others but many schools actually take the state private partnership very seriously. I just attended a massive drama production collaboration between the schools and it was amazing. But don’t worry that will be the first thing to be dropped.

‘As you say, there has always been a line between those who can afford and those who can't. The question is where do we want the line to be drawn? ’

well, that’s really up
to the parents isn’t it? If you are genuinely sacrificing everything, working 2 jobs, having no holidays, hitting up the grandparents…
You’ll probably be doing everyone a favour by sending your exceptional, smart etc kids to state school for free where they will no doubt thrive

Like the people who are complaining about having to pay VAT on a luxury product?

If, big if, they intend to bring this in they cannot, I repeat, cannot make it a blanket, immediate penalty. All children from year 9 onwards will have to be exempt. They are already in GCSE/ ALevel classes. The options are different, the boards are different, state schools may not offer the subject. Those gleeful pps on here of unintended consequence are truly uncaring. If your child was suddenly removed from a school they are in, told they can't now take the courses they have already started studying for, in a new school, in a new environment. How would your child cope?

This. Birth rates are collapsing. A lot of small primary schools are in danger of closing. This will impact secondaries in a few year's time. The total number of children in private schools is less than the reduction in pupil numbers coming through due to collapsing birth rates.

Not paid they're fair share of tax 😁

Sigh. Everyone I know who works in education is delighted to have the new government. The first statement put out by the new Minister for Education , after the SATS results was such a step change from the messaging we had been getting. That's where the 6500 are going to come from, a complete change in the approach to teachers and what's asked of them. It won't happen overnight and it's early days, but honestly it is so positive, compared to what we had been dealing with.

I think you've mixed me up with someone else. I didn't say this.

It's not that private school parents don't want their kids mixing with the 'plebs', your words. Behaviour is shocking in a lot of state schools and that impedes learninhg, that is what they are concerned about as it impacts the quality of their education. I know some teachers, they feel powerless to tackle bad behaviour as policy is so restricting, this is why lots of teachers are leaving. These issues simply don't exist in private schools, now why do you think that might be?

The very richest will be absolutely fine and barely flinch if the fees went up by a few thousand. Private school will truly be for the very wealthy only. Those small independent schools that people on a reasonable income will close. Schools will cut bursaries to plug the gap.