To be glad that the VAT on school fees

[Shaketherombooga]

Is now going to be happening in January? what’s the point in stalling it? I think it’s one of many decisions that we just need to get in with.

YABU - it’s SO unfair. Labour hates ‘strivers’ etc etc

YANBU - Yup, Labour said they are taking away tax breaks for private schools, so let’s get on with it.

I couldn’t agree more.

It’s exactly that - jealousy.

Yeah that's right, I'm the bigot. I've just seen working class people referred to as peasants on this thread.

I just really don't care about private school parents having to pay tax on a luxury service. I've yet to see anyone on Mumsnet present any good reason why i should care. I want labour to get this implemented as soon as possible.

How on earth is travelling first class for show and not comfort? No one knows once you arrive and no one knows on the plane apart from those sitting next to you. This is a terrible example. Of course people pay more for comfort when they fly first or business class. Flying economy is sheer hell. I’ve flown at both ends of plane plenty of times and I can tell you the difference is huge.

Probably much like the difference between private and state schools.

so they are paying for a better experience / better facilities then... exactly like I said

it's morally reprehensible to have a 2 tier education system whereby the wealthy pay to ensure their child doesn't mix with the plebs/ makes connections to ensure a certain career/ has access to a higher standard of teaching/ has access to particular subjects/ has access to better facilities*

*delete as appropriate

The catchments are broadly the boundaries of a city, if you live in a big city, you can apply whenever as long as you can do the commute, people naturally gravitate towards the closer schools anyway, however this doesn’t come with a premium tag price on your house as it is here sadly, not to mention the bidding wars that go on in some areas.
If it can be done in other countries, it can be done here, state schools where I am from are very good, literally no one feels the need to go private.

you can be against elitism whilst not being jealous.

that's a poor argument.

I'm against private schools, I'm not envious.

Let them lose their shit then, I wouldn’t be surprised if those in the wealthiest catchments are the most vocal about “principles”, if people want equality, scrap the catchments, that’s the biggest social divider ever!

This 100%. Well except the “loophole”. It’s not a loophole at all, it’s just the way VAT works. If you pay VAT you can recover it. Usually for some years before you register for VAT..factor in the kids moving to state schools from the private sector and it will probably end up a net cost to the country.

Anyone who thinks it’s a great idea are people with no economic understanding and obviously get off on hurting children. Posters on here who think it great to see kids bullied, pulled out of school etc just the start of idiotic ideologically driven Labour policies..

yes, indeed... they are all paying to give their child an advantage over others in some way or other. What that advantage is depends on the school/the child.

I deliberately chose the words "facilties" and "experience" to be vague for this reason.

The experience may be smaller classes, a certain style of education, a specialism, acres of space, to make connections... whatever...

They are paying for what they perceive to be a better service than what is offered to others. because they can.

No-one, so far, has convinced me that it's fair to do so. Only that 'life isn't fair, so suck it up povvos'.

Why are you against private school? Are you also against catchment areas? People getting private tutors? Do you think everyone should earn the same? Are you against private healthcare? What about Nurseries? University education? How are you going to find all those additional school places if you get rid of private schools?

that's quite the leap there. Clearly touched a nerve which is clouding your judgment

I'm against private schools and also against bullying. I'm also against building/maintaining a system that entrenches the elitism that pervades this country.

I can see nuance.

No, I don't think everyone should earn the same.

Stop leaping to conclusions. I think one set of children shouldn't be bought an advantage over others.

This is not like buying a holiday/designer clothes etc.

This is about education which is, in my opinion, the most important thing society offers.

Stop putting words in my mouth and making assumptions.

I’ll try here - the proposal will put more , not less pressure on access to state school places. Classes will get even bigger. Thornberry admitted this before the election.
People will buy houses in the catchment of the best state schools - pushing people out who previously got in. House prices will increase making it even harder for kids from poorer homes to get into the best state school.
The money this policy will create will barely scratch the surface of what the state needs and yet I fear the government will present this as a solution to the states finances and not do a lot else.
Our education system will become even more elitist - the very rich won’t care but those at the cheaper private schools will be pushed out. Private school becomes truly the preserve of the very rich.
Bursaries will be cut to make cost savings.
Small private schools will go under causing job losses for all sorts of people.
Finally children will have their education disrupted. If they had this as a policy for new entrants only I could probably get on board with it but at the moment it appears almost spiteful.

There are some really stupid comments from both sides in this thread- some of it nasty and uncalled for. I have mentioned my position before - state school teacher, working class background, kids state school educated and no chance of ever going private. I just think the proposed policy is deeply flawed.

Surely though rather than removing choice it'd be better to push for a better standard of state education? This policy will do absolutely nothing to address that. I can't even name anything education related in Labours manifesto aside from this policy which won't actually change much.

I'll say the same thing I've said in numerous threads before (not just private school ones), because its been trotted out here a few times;

Just 👏Because 👏Someone 👏Well👏Paid👏Says👏They👏Work👏Hard👏Doesn't👏Mean👏They're👏Implying👏Or👏Saying👏People👏Who👏Are👏Lower👏Paid👏Don't👏Work👏Hard.

The two can and do coexist, and majority of people, even "private school parents" probably have a decent grasp on understanding it.

It’s been explained over and again that state numbers are dropping and when you spread the tiny amount out who will leave private it will hardly be noticeable so probably best to drop the scaremongering.

Poorer kids have long since been priced out of Outstanding areas. 90% of schools are rated Good and above so there are plenty of good schools to go round.

It’s a start.

There has been plenty of warning and children up and down the country move schools throughout the school year. They cope. Any parent sailing that close to the wind re paying fees has themselves to blame. Being able to pay fees is the big risk when you start educating your child privately.

And finally luxury services such as private education aren’t a right.

If there are plenty of good schools to go around then why are you so upset by private schools? Do you assume all are like Eton?

*I'll say the same thing I've said in numerous threads before (not just private school ones), because its been trotted out here a few times;

Just 👏Because 👏Someone 👏Well👏Paid👏Says👏They👏Work👏Hard👏Doesn't👏Mean👏They're👏Implying👏Or👏Saying👏People👏Who👏Are👏Lower👏Paid👏Don't👏Work👏Hard.*

Plenty won't accept this unfortunately, even though deep down they know it's true.

Because the privately educated l( by no means Eton)are massively over represented in the top jobs across all sectors and unis which is exactly why parents send their kids there and are outraged at the thought of losing the privilege.

Yes I understand state numbers are dropping on a national level but that’s no use if there is no space locally for someone’s children. My high school is very heavily oversubscribed. We are the only state high school in the town. Any local children leaving their private school are going to struggle to get anywhere close. And public transport is abysmal round here. The council have to pay for transport if you are put in a school more than three miles away.

I'm sure having read through the thread, that pretty much every time words like peasant were used, the poster was being sarcastic. I think you have misinterpreted the tone of some of these posts.

It’s been explained over and over again that the spare places are not evenly spread across the country. There is more capacity at primary level but not at senior where the baby boom years are still in the school population. Added to that, the most recent reports published in the past week show that the need for school places is not decreasing as much as originally estimated.

As for planning, many people have planned for this but not at the same time as rampant inflation and huge increases in their mortgage/rent etc. Also, it was a policy proposed by a political party who may or may not have got into power. Are we now all supposed to plan our lives around who may get into Government in the future? During the election campaign, it was indicated that the policy would take effect from September 25 so parents thought they had a year to get an alternative sorted for their DC and it now feels like they have had the rug pulled from under them.

As for children being fine to move schools, mid-year or otherwise, there are loads of threads on Mumsnet from parents worried about their DC needing to move schools and they are very often advised to try to do everything to keep their child in their existing place, particulary in key years for transition or exams. I personally witnessed a heartbroken, inconsolable child at the end of term due to them being removed from their private school and all their friends. Some will be OK but not all of them. Some will end up costing the taxpayer far more than a state school place when they need mental health support.

There have been quite a few posts on this thread and others which do, in fact, imply that people in lower paid jobs don't work as hard.