To be glad that the VAT on school fees

[Shaketherombooga]

Is now going to be happening in January? what’s the point in stalling it? I think it’s one of many decisions that we just need to get in with.

YABU - it’s SO unfair. Labour hates ‘strivers’ etc etc

YANBU - Yup, Labour said they are taking away tax breaks for private schools, so let’s get on with it.

I'm against private schools, I'm not envious.

@mugboat If private schools were abolished what do you think should happen to the buildings, playing fields and facilities etc?
It would cost the government a lot to buy them so do you think they should be confiscated?

That is really not very different from what the situation is at present. Most "lower middle class" families couldn't contemplate private schools in any case.

The ones that can will pay a bit of extra tax.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies estimates that the policy will result in a net gain of over £1bn per year.
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/tax-private-school-fees-and-state-school-spending

The same article also states that private school fees have increased by over 50% in the last 20 years without any impact on the number of children in private schools, which suggests that the majority of parents whose children go to private school will find the additional money for the increased fees, despite the claims of many posters in this thread.

They aren't going to lose the privilege. A few will leave but the top schools will thrive. It's a shame about bursaries, but just means the rich will have private schools all to themselves and carry on happily getting to the the best universities and top jobs.

Hopefully at least state schools will improve, although I agree with others on this thread that terrible state schools will need something more than money. It would be good if being a teacher was a happier, more respected profession, but with the new Labour thinking on schools being judged less on exam results and more on how they look after disruptive pupils, I can't see that happening for years.

Mental health support for moving school!!! You’d be lucky to get support for serious Mental health conditions at the moment so really don’t think there will be any additional cost there. Forces kids do it all the time and I’ve seen plenty of kids change school absolutely fine. It’s pretty common. Again it’s on the parent . If you sign up for an expensive luxury service there is no guarantee you’ll always be able to afford it.

There are think tanks that dispute the calculations such as this one:

www.adamsmith.org/news/applying-vat-to-independent-school-fees-could-cost-as-much-as-16-billion

Well, tbf there probably was a guarantee if you had carefully worked out a budget inc fee rises for 5 years, as I would imagine all independent school parents do. The 20% would have been a big shock.

I'm sure the majority of kids who have to leave and go to state will be fine, if they've been to a good school before they are likely to be academically a long way ahead of their classmates anyway.

Genuine Question

If a pupil gets a large bursary (say 60%) will the VAT be levied on the remainder of the fees the parents pay (40%) or the entire amount.

personally I'd advocate for both... scrapping private schools (also, faith schools and grammar) and investing in education for all children.

This is not what is proposed, but it's what I would like.

If the school is honouring the bursary (some arent) then I would think only the part that is paid is vat able, but I could be wrong. Good question.

Even if those children in elite private schools all went to state schools, they would still dominate the top jobs and university places. Much as people like to say it is because people in deprived areas are discriminated against because they are deprived, that is not the major factor. Yes it is harder for parents in those areas to support their child into top unis etc, but the main reason most don’t is not lack of opportunity but their culture. A culture of multigenerational unemployment, of lack of interest in education, of very restricted mobility (geographically), of dislike and distrust of those in positions of relative power…

Nice idea but would never happen.

Assuming then that you also support overcrowding in state schools?

Not sure you've really thought this through...

Well I had a suicide attempt as a result of my terrible school experience and I did get mental health support after that. So yes, some children will end up needing mental health support. And no, it’s not all on the parents. There is no need for this VAT policy, monies could be raised in other, fairer ways or it could be phased in for new pupils only. Furthermore, there are many pupils in private schools whose parents removed them from state school because their needs were not being supported. Some of these DC have severe anxiety or other mental health issues. How is putting them back in a school that failed them going to help? And of course it will increase the burden on the state. Their parents are just trying to keep them safe and happy and doing the best with what they have. Education is not a luxury service, that’s why it’s against EU law to put VAT on it.

I wonder how all the state school parents who are so delighted that their kids are 'naturally able' will feel about them being relegated once the private school kids come along and take their places in the top sets!

Yep... this is me... not sure if I count as lower middle... I would class myself as such. There's no private school for my children.

We do not qualify for bursaries in our area, yet there's no way we could afford circa £15k per year per child.

A friend of my daughter's managed to get a full scholarship at an exclusive private school. Apparently there was only 1 available and competition was fierce. She was prepped to within an inch of her life, since birth practically. She has hours of dance classes every week, English and Maths tuition every week, music (she's grade 8 on 2 instruments and is in an orchestra- she's 11). Good luck to her, she works hard... but she has had many advantages to get her to that level and she is basically the type of child who will win such a scholarship. Not ordinary, bright but poor students.

🤔Errr who says they will?

Lol.

Scraping the barrel with your what ifs aren't you? I'd be delighted for there to be additional academic children alongside my own. She gets on well with these types of children, so she would love it too. She loves to talk about science and maths so would like a kindred spirit to chat to.

If they've been to a good private school and they have no SEN then they will almost certainly be quite a long way ahead. That is a fact, and what the state schools will be expecting.

Then that's great!

I am totally against taxing education, but this sort of comment is daft. Private school pupils would not automatically take the top sets (assuming maths is even set, it isn’t in my local school) and if they did raise the standards of the top set and that below then I am sure parents would be delighted. The problem many able state school children face is insufficient challenge.

Times have changed re eligibility for MH treatment.
and seriously if your’re saying kids are going to be attempting to take their own lives due to changing school that is ridiculous. Kids change school all the time, anybody with such an extreme reaction would already have MH difficulties. It’s not a normal coping strategy.

Scholarships and bursaries are different.

I agree. The govt are not gutsy enough.

Didn't say it would happen. I said it's what I'm in favour of.

Well, if the logic being applied is that private school parents are buying their way into a better standard of education which "isn't fair" then presumably the state school parents think the private school kids will have had a better standard of education and will therefore be further advanced.

I'm (very deprived) state school educated and have had an extremely successful well paid career so I'm simply stating the logical extension of the argument rather than asserting that private school kids are more intelligent.