To be glad that the VAT on school fees

[Shaketherombooga]

Is now going to be happening in January? what’s the point in stalling it? I think it’s one of many decisions that we just need to get in with.

YABU - it’s SO unfair. Labour hates ‘strivers’ etc etc

YANBU - Yup, Labour said they are taking away tax breaks for private schools, so let’s get on with it.

Because the total fees (including the VAT) will go up making private so much more expensive and exclusive than it already is.

It is morally reprehensible to tax education

They tried that in my sons old school. There was a massive influx of migrants (attracted to the area because of high performing schools). Two bulge classes in each year. The standard of the who school fell. Schools are struggling to recruit good teachers in the first place. Trying to find teachers for these extra classes is impossible.

Unfortunately for the children involved, this ideologically rather than economically driven measure is likely to be the first of many ways Labour fucks this country up.

Counting down the days to 2029, let’s hope they don’t do too much damage before these politics are pushed back into, by then, too small 6th form common room where they belong!!

Because it's not a vote winner. My DC looked at Imperial college, some courses have double the number of foreign applicants to UK ones. Just been named by one of the world's leading university league tables, as the best university in the world. Such a shame our own bright DC don't have good access to these quality institutions. The government aren't really interested in social mobility just an attack on the perceived wealthy.

Absolutely this. Small personal schools tend to do much better as they connect with their children and families, they know who is genuinely struggling and try to help them. And this is at least partly why some small independents do better than big comprehensives, not because they are richer or they have better teachers, but because they are personalised to children's needs. But small schools cost comparatively more to run, as they still need a head, a senco,a receptionist and a caretaker no matter how many or few children there are, so the government is not likely to encourage them unfortunately.

https://www.etoncollege.com/eton-outwards/eton-connect-local-partnerships/

I’ll just leave this here……..

Pretty sure Eton does some good things with 6th form scholarships to give opportunities to outstanding students from state schools

I'm not even sure what people are arguing about any more, this post is so divisive which was probably OP's intention all along.

Some people have more money than others. They quite rightly pay more tax and thus contribute to a more equitable society. Without tax payers there would be no NHS, social housing or a benefit system. Without those who are able to privately educate their children there would be no state education. It's just simple economics.

For what it's worth I privately educate my children so don't require any state funding there. My family also have private healthcare so we don't use the NHS. I've never claimed child benefit (quite rightly not eligible because I'm a higher rate tax payer), and I've never claimed any benefits. I've never once moaned about paying my dues. I'll pay VAT on school fees if I am required to. I pay an awful lot to fund those who have less, as I should. Just lucky I guess.

What irks me is the attitude shown by certain posters on this thread. The glee that I'll have to pay more or that children will be 'eaten alive' by the seemingly wonderful children and teachers in the state sector if they are forced to move. Do they deserve that? Does anyone? It's like we're living in a dystopian society where people just wish misery on those whose only crime is to be 'lucky'.

There are lots of good people in all parts of society, and sadly some that aren't very nice. Let's not let the minority win.

You're assuming that only wealthy people send their kids to private school and state schools don't have any wealthy pupils and that's just not accurate.

Of course it's unreasonable to implement the change in the middle of a school year.

Jesus. I read posts like this and I'm so glad I can afford school fees, with or without VAT!

How many years will the race to the bottom last, I wonder.

Yep I realise that, they are also in the main charities just as private schools. They also fall under the remit of the Education Secretary, who has the power to legislating to ensure adequate spaces are provided to UK students. That is my point, everyone has an opinion on the finer points of Bristols admissions but are missing the bigger picture. Private school kids taking uni places isn't making anywhere near the impact the increasing numbers of foreign students is.

To be clear, I'm not at all interested in a race to the bottom. I'm pointing out the inconsistency in many posters' position. If they are all about a level playing field, they and Labour need to look at levelling out the state sector which has far greater gaps than between state and most privates. And always always level.up, not down. But that's hard. The VAT policy is easy, so they don't care if it's ineffective or kids like mine at the margins may suffer.

There is no problem unless you are a person canvassing for better access to University for those from deprived areas or those from state schools. Then the fact that the foreign students, in my experience often privately educated are buying their places on the courses through their 30k fees may offend you.

My curiousity is why arent all of the passsionate equalty searching people who are vying for private school children to be penalised in the name of leveling access bothered by foreign wealthy students having advantages over the state school educated UK child. It's interesting that the annoyance is only levelled at fellow brits.

@mugboat “Children will never start from a level playing field, so let's work hard to ensure this is further entrenched by having a system whereby the wealthy send their children to schools with amazing facilities”

What is your definition of amazing facilities? I know of a private school set in acres upon acres of land. Literally picturesque . I also know a private inner city private school which has almost no space and is pretty run down

likewise I know of a state school which is also set in the middle of the countryside and you would never know is state as set in a beautiful Vitcforian building

How on earth can you turn an inner city state school into a countryside one with acres of space? No matter how much money you throw at it how is it possible? You can’t give amazing facilities to all schools whether private or state. It is just isn’t physically possible. A school is far more than just the grass and the buildings.

why are people paying so much if the facilities aren't excellent? if they are paying ££££ to send their child to private school and NOT getting a better experience for their child then they are the mugboats.

The politics of envy.

Better facilities don't necessarily equate to better experience. Some people go private because they want alternative provision e.g. Montessori or Steiner schools, others for reasons of faith, SEN, small class sizes, some because the school has a specialism in dance, drama, sport or science which plays to their kids' strengths. Independent is often the only alternative for parents whose philosophies or beliefs might not align with the national curriculum or how it's taught, the constant testing for SATS etc. In other countries, independent schools are government subsidised so that all parents have access to variety of schools and they can pick the ones which best align with their own values or the needs of the child.

Universities need those 3 times UK fees students to be viable. And many of the overseas students are super bright. I welcome them. In terms of the UK component, I don't really mind if universities are full of private or state school DC, although a healthy mix is probably most representative of society. I just want universities to select the right DC, the naturally most able. Private school DC are not being actively penalised in the name of levelling access. There's a lot of face saving hyperbole around that when private school DC don't get places as easily as before. It's simply more competitive now and it's tougher to get the places. WP in principle is a very good thing and academic performance should absolutely be considered in the context in which it was achieved if the brightest are to be selected. Not all universities have got it fine tuned yet and it is a journey but it has to be the right way forward.

That will always be the case - VAT or not. People with money use it to buy better experiences for themselves and their offsprings, family etc. That is often the main point of growing wealth.

We should be focused on improving state school facilities - so those unable or unwilling to pay have access to a good education and experience. That is equity.

However, if VAT helps there - that is a good thing and sincerely hope it helps in the areas really struggling.

In terms of fair share - private school parents would have paid their taxes, not taken up a state school place and paid 20% extra for the privilege. Hope that is enough to allow them to enjoy their educational choices for their kids in peace!

whether they have new labs or old labs really doesn’t bother me. I managed just fine with labs from the 1960s with blackboards.

People have all sorts of reasons for choosing private as this thread has shown.

Exactly right @edwinbear . Look how long it takes implement other legislation. This won’t happen any time soon.

The OP sounds pathetically jealous being focused on this when it clearly isn’t a tax she will have to pay. Imagine posting to complain that January implementation isn’t soon enough. 😂 She clearly has no idea how laws are drafted, passed or implemented. Sorry OP, you’re going to have to seethe from the sidelines a bit longer while all those privileged arseholes enjoy paying for their Childrens’ educations VAT free. 🙄