No more Protest

[lightinthebox]

Regardless of your views of Just Stop Oil, we should all be worried.

This has gone through easily because people hate Just Stop Oil, it’s an easy target and has fooled people.

We should not be celebrating lengthy jail sentences for planning protests, we should be scared about what this means.

Not just that, but if peaceful protests equal a jail sentence then what’s to stop people from going to violence if they know they can’t protest.

People should stop and think, ignore your prejudice and see the bigger picture.

Saw this today. Made me chuckle

Orange is the new black!

I would like to ask a question of all the people who appear to be salivating over five years in prison.
Have you ever been to prison?
I'm wondering if it's that you just don't know the reality of prison life, or that you do and you are sadistic.
It's one thing to approve of the sentencing and quite another to be so viciously pleased about a non-violent offender getting five years.

If they do start killing, you'll be correct to call them that.

Quite. But they're more interested in getting their names in the paper.
I'd go for swingeing fines myself, enough to meet the costs they incurred to others.

@XChrome olease listen to the video posted above explaining the sentencing. It behoves everyone commenting to do so

Thanks, but I'm not particularly interested in what the court decided and why. I just want to know why some people are so gleeful about it.
I don't really have an opinion on the sentence itself, not being familiar with British law.

Laws and sentences follow what a society wants or doesn’t want. I think we actually should look at making physical protests illegal because it can be distressing to people as we’ve seen. If you want to protest you can write to your MP or go on phone ins on the radio to get your voice heard or write a letter to the newspaper

It would be lovely if simply phoning in to a radio station actually got governments to listen and action change.

We’ve gotten to the stage where these tactics don’t achieve anything and people are deeply concerned and rightly worried about climate change.

Instead of getting angry at JSO maybe look beyond yourself and why people find the need for extreme tactics, why do we have a government lead by someone who abandoned the Net Zero target.

For me this isn’t about JSO, this is about curtailing our freedoms and what this means for our rights. Sadly people can’t see beyond their hate of JSO which is exactly why they were targeted for unjust sentencing.

Have you watched the video from the barrister @lightinthebox ? It explains exactly what the convictions were for and why the sentences are as they were. He also points out the misreporting which has made people get the wrong idea about the sentences.

the accused had multiple previous convictions for start. And were on bail. This results in higher sentences than would otherwise be imposed, for one thing.

The judge wasn’t “targeting” them. We are fortunate to have an independent judiciary.

I think it’s important that you educate yourself about this before making allegations of unfairness.

No, terrorism is first and foremost psychological and it doesn't have to even result in physical bodily harm to be classed as such.

Terrorism is about perception and that begins psychologically before anything else. Nor is there a particular metric to judge your "widespread fear of bodily harm in order to be terrorism" assertion. Terrorism doesn't solely target people's bodies, but also important infrastructure.

The goal of terrorism is to coerce the Sovereign Power into doing what terrorists want by targeting the civilian population including civilian infrastructure.

You've misunderstood what terrorism is, how it operates, how they think, etc.

Having said that, I'm not personally saying Just Stop Oil is a terrorist group themselves. They're closer to extremists which isn't quite the same thing as a terrorist although there are some overlaps yet important differences.

But I can see how the layperson would certainly view Just Stop Oil as a terrorist organisation. After all, there is no one size fits all or MO of terrorist groups since they have various differences from each other whilst having various similarities.

Terrorism act 2000 and 2006 gives the definitions.

"The use or threat must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.
The specific actions included are:

• serious violence against a person;
• serious damage to property;
• endangering a person's life (other than that of the person committing the action);
• creating a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public; and
• action designed to seriously interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.

The use or threat of action, as set out above, which involves the use of firearms or explosives is terrorism regardless of whether or not the action is designed to influence the government or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public or a section of the public"

Perhaps points 3 and 4 could be applied to JSO but then could also apply to some union organised strike action, i'm sure there are plenty who would like to see health care staff in jail too :(

While I would die to protect JSO’s right to feel strongly about the environmental impact of the oil industry on the planet, I still feel that they got their just desserts under this sentencing.
The problem is that they’ve wilfully impeded, indiscriminately, the rights of the majority (who, for all they know, are just as concerned about climate change, but have already made their own personal efforts and sacrifices to reduce their carbon footprints) in going about their lawful business.
What they should be doing, IMO, is getting support from their like-minded peers, by running as Local Councillors, or MP’s in order that they get to a position where they CAN make a difference - at corporate, not personal level.
However, they seem to want to grab all the power (of making a change that will impact the maximum number of people) without putting in the ground-slog required to get into those positions.
This is a very lazy and “in-your-face” activity which garners scant sympathy from those who have been inconvenienced by their actions, and in some cases, at life-changing points in their own lives. By resorting to the public disruption activities, they are damaging their own cause, too.

Difference between Unions and JSO is that Union leaders such as USDAW et al comply with the law in various ways. Their action is largely directed against the employer whereas JSOs is more indiscriminate, i.e. members of the public are often negatively impacted.

As the judge made plain in his ruling, the JSO activists convicted didn't plan to comply with the law.

In short, you're drawing a false equivalence between workers Unions such as USDAW et al and JSO.

For me, JSO is more of an extremist organisation which UK law isn't really geared up for dealing with in a major way. But it is catching up with the problem of extremism in various guises.

No i didn't make that equivalence, i said that "perhaps" points 3 and 4 could apply to JSO but also NHS strike action too...... which has undoubtedly led to serious disruption to the public, inc endangering their health through missed appointments etc.

People are very keen to brand an organisation or indeed a Union "extremist" if they don't agree with them.

There have been many threads on here calling for all forms of strike action (in the NHS) to be banned, if Sunak had won the GE, it would have happened too.

Comparing JSO to a terrorist organisation is just crazy.

I think there are exemptions for trade union type activity in the public order legislation.

I forgot to add earlier that they were also in breach of High Court injunctions relating to being on the M25 .

Yes, you did make the false equivalence between JSO and legitimate worker's unions. See 👇:

"...could also apply to some union organised strike action..."

Your reference to the NHS was after this and clearly separate.

But unions comply with the law. JSO has been shown to plan to NOT comply with the law plus previous criminal record added to the length of their respective sentences.

An Extremist is not quite the same as a Terrorist which is why I made the crucial distinction.

I can see why the layperson would consider JSO a terrorist organisation, but that's usually because MOST people don't think about terrorism in any real detail. I would say its important to understand why they make that comparison as opposed to instantly dismissing them.

Listening to and explaining the difference is more likely to result in people thinking a bit more about the issue.

My view is that JSO is an Extremist organisation rather than a Terrorist one. Largely due to having actual experience of a terrorist organisation on a daily basis.

People are very keen to brand an organisation or indeed a Union "extremist" if they don't agree with them.

Alexandra barely a day went by without someone calling the Tories ‘fascist’. Those who’d lived under Hitler or Mussolini might disagree.

mmmm which i why i used "perhaps and could" so no, i have to disagree, you ve just chosen to interpret it this way.

Laws can of course be changed, like i said, had the Tories won, strike action by Doc's/Nurses could then become unlawful (subject to min services levels) and they could then find themselves branded "extremists" and sentenced according to the law.

In the case of JSO, had they done the exact same protest a few years ago, they would not have been sentenced to 4/5 years.

Just because the law says so, doesn't automatically make that law just or correct, history is littered with examples.

"mmmm which i why i used "perhaps and could" so no, i have to disagree, you ve just chosen to interpret it this way."

On the contrary, you attempted to make a clear link between JSO and Unions. And failed in the process.

"Laws can of course be changed, like i said, had the Tories won, strike action by Doc's/Nurses could then become unlawful (subject to min services levels) and they could then find themselves branded "extremists" and sentenced according to the law."

Laws that don't evolve to deal with emergent threats which are novel is a bad idea. That laws can be evolved, amended or altered is not an argument in favour of keeping laws in a straitjacket permanently.

Society doesn't stand still and neither does various threats to the society itself.

"In the case of JSO, had they done the exact same protest a few years ago, they would not have been sentenced to 4/5 years."

I suggest you read the judge's own ruling on this instead. It provides clarity on the legal reasons.

"Just because the law says so, doesn't automatically make that law just or correct, history is littered with examples."

This is simply Circular Reasoning. In other words, you've put the cart before the horse. Do yourself a favour and read the actual ruling itself.

Including the bit where previous criminal record by the accused was taken into account which results in....longer sentences imposed.

They killed people and were scheming horrific chaos that would almost certainly have killed and harmed more. Wonderful that the judge, for once, got it exactly right.

Domestic terrorists will reconsider harming the public after his widely praised sentence.

And yep no matter the cause I'd be delighted by this outcome.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/just-stop-oil-waterloo-bridge-ambulance-b2443700.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1686269/Just-Stop-Oil-Dartford-Bridge-M20-Lisa-Webber-BMW-Mark-Heap-CPR-ont

Some selections from the Judge's sentencing remarks.

The case was far more serious than those attempting to defend JSO here seem to be asserting.

JSO absolutely convicted themselves via their own Zoom call evidence! 🙈

One more.

Do you think a terrorist organisation that launched a cyber attack on, say, the banking system or the NHS and caused mayhem should be given a few months of community service, because, you know, it’s not violent is it?

The Judge stated the five JSO convicts "embarked on a calculated campaign to disrupt the proceedings as far as you possibly could".

The five demonstrated complete contempt for the rule of law when planning their fanatical extremism, when carrying it out, when arrested and even when they were put on trial for it.

I must say I'm absolutely delighted to see the five have been RIGHTLY convicted of the crimes they stood accused of.

Ironically, it was the five JSO convicts who provided the evidence for their own conviction!

Now...that's what I call justice.

Already, I can predict the response to my post from some quarters.....🙈