No more Protest

[lightinthebox]

Regardless of your views of Just Stop Oil, we should all be worried.

This has gone through easily because people hate Just Stop Oil, it’s an easy target and has fooled people.

We should not be celebrating lengthy jail sentences for planning protests, we should be scared about what this means.

Not just that, but if peaceful protests equal a jail sentence then what’s to stop people from going to violence if they know they can’t protest.

People should stop and think, ignore your prejudice and see the bigger picture.

If your moral compass is not to cause harm then you cannot support this behaviour

@XChrome are you actually up to speed from Canada on what these people did? And what they were planning to do? I'm not sure you grasp that this was no minor protest but a sustained attack on the transport infrastructure of the most densely populated part of the UK. I think you've come to this with ideas on protest that don't fit the facts. People's lives were on the on line. I'd call that passive aggressive violence even if you wouldn't. Do you even agree that what they did was criminal, and do you understand that the sentences reflected the severity of the crime and their constant reoffending and escalation with attacks against the public?

@lightinthebox thinking of your comments, I'm reminded of that wonderful line from Lord Farquad in Shrek:

"Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make!"

That's not relevant to my point about terrorism, which is general, not specific to this case.
But yes, I do know the basic facts. None of the things you've outlined make it terrorism.
There is no such thing as passive violence. That's a contradiction in terms.
Unintended harm is also not terrorism.

Whether or not it's criminal is a matter of UK law, which as you say, I am not familiar with. I have no opinion on that.

Confused as to when I said people dying was ok, but hey ho.

@XChrome respectfully, I don't think you get to tell us from Canada what we in the UK experience as terrorism or not.

As i said earlier, i don't really support their cause.

Its the sentence, how can anyone defend 5years when we routinely sentence men who have committed violent attacks against women & children, inc rape, less harsh sentences?

... plus at a time when the prison estate is in such crisis that convicted criminals are being released from their already lenient sentences early?

Where are peoples moral compasses on this?

No reasonable person can compare JSO to 7/11 or the IRA campaigns.

Infact as someone who lost a close family member to an IRA killing, its very insulting, you're a fucking idiot if you think the two are in anyway comparable.

Sorry, not a valid argument. The definition of terrorism is no different to people in the UK as it is here. How people feel about it does not make it terrorism either.
Terrorism is a strong word. IMO, it's not to be used lightly and that applies no matter where you live.

@Alexandra2001 I'm sorry for what you've experienced. But how would you feel if a relative died in an ambulance on their way to hospital for emergency care because of these attacks on public infrastructure. I suspect you would be less forgiving. The fact that sentences should be longer for sex offenders (on which I agree) is not material to whether the sentence for JSO is appropriate (it was).

@XChrome some may agree. Others won't. It wasn't in Canada though was it.

I sit here and think what actually has juststopoil achieved? I’m all for clean fuel etc , as I think most people are but am limited by my own resources (can’t afford solar energy, heat pumps etc, can’t even afford bloody insulation) and infrastructure limitations.

mostly they make headlines for all the WRONG reasons - causing ambulance delays, parents delayed in dealing with kids, and not allowing people who work actually get to their work causing them big problems. Misdeeds is right to point out and list the harm they are doing.

they piss a lot of people off to make the headlines - and the headlines aren’t that supportive.

in short they are bullying people, they are forcing people to participate in their action irrespective of the harm that results. That isn’t protest. It’s bullying. It’s not peaceful either - they might not be agressive but their action are in terms of impact it has on people with real immediate needs.

There are more effective ways to get the noise level out there re carbon fuel and with their intelligence, logistics etc they could do something that would bring focus without disruption . They can still do eye catching stunts etc, just not by putting ordinary people through stress and difficulty . At the end of the day ordinary people aren’t going to fix this. Governments will . And governments need to unified voice of electorate to force it to happen. Juststopoil are not unifying the electorate. At all.

however, I think the sentences are outrageous. This is more than rapist. The governments bought Timpson in to deal with prisons, and these are classic case he’d be advocating community sentencing orders for. a few years of community work would have exactly same effect on these people of disrupting their lives in turn and making them realise that bullying other ordinary people to make your point isn’t the right way or effective way to win supporters.

right that they are convicted. Wrong sentence. Completely. But also entirely wrong action and strategy by juststopoil.

It was a long time ago but thankyou.

Yes doubtless i would feel different but sentences shouldn't be decided on by the victims of crime or we'd have a very different and probably bloody justice system.

imho generally speaking, we shouldn't be sending non violent people to prison, some exceptions of course, fraud for example, can have huge life changing impacts on their victims.... but protestors? no... taking their house from them would have a very strong deterrent effect... i don't to see the M25 closed.

Yes sex/violent offenders should get longer sentences & have a better experience once there, one reason they don't is the lack of prison capacity because we send non violent people to jail.

Yes OP I agree. It's part of our steady creep towards facism and frankly it terrifies me that people are cheering it on. Just as it terrifies me that 4 million people voted reform.

Anyone who has ever wondered 'but how did the Nazis get away with it'...

Blocking roads is not peaceful protest. They deserve every day in prison they get. They’re a menace to society

Even they themselves have said it’s not peaceful protest and that that’s not the issue.

They see themselves as fighting a war. They say that. Not me.

A more in depth look into them reveals that they are much more sinister than I had thought.

But we have done that for years, probably centuries.Conspiracy to murder can get you life in prison.

As for 9/11 it is a closer comparator than at first glance.

No JSO did not set out to murder thousands of people RIP to all of them.

But the way most people (millions probably) were effected was massive inconvenience. Flights turned around mid atlantic or diverted to Canada. US airspace closed for the best part of a week. People stranded away from loved ones. People having to be evacuated by boat from lower Manhattan. Bridges and tunnels were closed.

Don't get me wrong, those 3000 or so families who lost a loved one (or more) in that attack have unbelievable pain and I can't think of much worse than that. I am in no way trivialising their hurt.

Do you think organisers of the farmer protests that blocked motorways and streets back in February should be carted off to jail too.

Yes, they were breaking the law.

It's worth remembering the suffragette movement had a campaign of arson and bombing and killed and injured several people.
The outcome doesn't make it acceptable.

Just stop oil are idiots. Not peaceful. They deserve to be in jail

This is BlackBeltBarrister explaining the judges comments.

That’s really helpful @sashh Everyone should watch it no matter if they support JSO or not

@GoldFrame I'm glad you found it helpful, he is fairly unbiased.

I disagree. Not aggressive actions IMO.

Watch the video @WishIhadnotcome

Yes, he didn’t express a view, just explained it in legal terms. Really helpful. The way it’s been reported is very misleading, and journalists should be ashamed of doing no research!