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Donald trump!!

1000 replies

Filltheglass · 13/07/2024 23:44

Just nearly got assasinated!!!

OP posts:
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29
Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 12:08

DownNative · 15/07/2024 11:44

I suggest that you familiarise yourself with the Strawman Argument Fallacy and then simply don't make them.....🤦‍♂️

Edited

i suggest you familiarise yourself with it because this isn’t it. It’s perfectly obvious that he only got acquitted because certain people didn’t want to go against him and this was widely reported at the time.

SidekickSylvia · 15/07/2024 12:29

TempestTost · 15/07/2024 11:00

The Republicans were the antislavery party, and the Democrats very much the party of segregation, Jim Crow, and race essentialism.

Your description of why that changed, the "switch" in the parties positions, is one perspective - however there is also a perspective, one you find commonly among black conservatives, which says this "switch" never occurred. Rather, once blacks gained the vote, the Democrats quickly realized that they could essentially bribe that population - and had an interest in keeping them as a kind of underclass in order to keep them as a dependent voting block. It's a perspective that's gained some traction in the black community over the last few years for a number of reasons.

That's interesting, regarding the 'switch'. I've seen a video of Biden, from about 30 or 40 years ago, saying he didn't want his children educated with black children. He was appealing to white voters then, and it was along the lines of 'C'mon, what, do you want your children educated with black children? It would be like a jungle.' The Democrats have an outrageous history regarding racism, and if I were a black American I don't think I'd be at all convinced that Biden or his party have changed.

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 12:36

America is a very right wing country overall though. Their Democrats are more like our Conservatives.

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 12:44

The way autistic people are treated in America is pretty horrible, too with education providers referring to autism as ‘a cancer’.

So, essentially you don’t have choice of a government who truly is inclusive and anti-racist, whoever you vote for.

daisychain01 · 15/07/2024 12:53

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 12:36

America is a very right wing country overall though. Their Democrats are more like our Conservatives.

I'm confused- I associate right wing with Republicans (UK Tory/Conservative) and left wing with Democrats (UK Labour)

daisychain01 · 15/07/2024 12:55

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 12:44

The way autistic people are treated in America is pretty horrible, too with education providers referring to autism as ‘a cancer’.

So, essentially you don’t have choice of a government who truly is inclusive and anti-racist, whoever you vote for.

That's dreadful!

sounds like there isn't a direct mapping between US and the main UK political parties

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 12:55

No, that's definitely not how it is.

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 12:56

Sorry, re: political parties. I mean you can't really compare the US and the UK anyway I guess. But I'd say democrats are more in line with our Tories. And Republicans even further to the right.

GingerScallop · 15/07/2024 12:59

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 09:58

Some Americans are not at all convinced that Trump is as popular as people are making out on this thread. Apparently, recent polls suggest that he'd be easily beaten by Hilary Clinton or Kamala Harris even.

The MAGA movement has its own cult. It's silly to assume this assassination attempt will make people think he's great and forget all the awful ways in which he's conducted himself publicly.

Boris Johnson wouldn't suddenly regain popularity in such a situation after partygate for example.

I think it will make his constituency excited but they were already excited. I think Dems (Biden?) will gain from it. Those disappointed because he is old or whatever will not think, "I wasnt going to vote and now I will just to keep Trump out". As one American commentator said after the debate "vote for Biden even if he is pooing on himself".
Another trajectory is that in 3 to 4 months, something else will happen and the euphoria of this will die. After all, we are the whats-next 24hr news era.

tamade · 15/07/2024 13:08

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 12:08

i suggest you familiarise yourself with it because this isn’t it. It’s perfectly obvious that he only got acquitted because certain people didn’t want to go against him and this was widely reported at the time.

Also perfectly obvious that he was only indicted because the Democrat controlled congress wanted to. I think there is a pattern forming

cupcaske123 · 15/07/2024 13:15

tamade · 15/07/2024 13:08

Also perfectly obvious that he was only indicted because the Democrat controlled congress wanted to. I think there is a pattern forming

Quite a few Republicans voted against him but there weren't enough unfortunately.which means he gets to run again. It's nothing to crow about.

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 13:28

@GingerScallop yes we just have to hope that common sense prevails in the US overall. As I said, David Pakman's opinion is that at the moment, people are viewing the situation as 'another 4 years of Trump' vs 'not another 4 years of Trump'. So it doesn't matter who is on the Democrat ticket.

As you say, though, in politics a lot can happen even in 24 hours!

1dayatatime · 15/07/2024 13:38

@daisychain01

"I'm confused- I associate right wing with Republicans (UK Tory/Conservative) and left wing with Democrats (UK Labour)"

More like the Democrats are somewhere between Conservatives and Lib Dem's and the Republican Party in general somewhere between Conservatives and Reform (but with Trump closer to Reform).

1dayatatime · 15/07/2024 13:51

Also Republicans blaming Biden for the assassination attempt is equally conspiracy theory bollocks:

www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/07/14/republicans-blame-biden-trump-assassination-attempt/

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 15:18

To determine where does Putin invade next, it might be worth trying to work out why he invaded Ukraine. Then look at other countries where similar circumstances exist. If you think it is because he ran out of babies to eat, well I guess anywhere with babies could be next. If you think it is about EU/NATO encroachment, Black sea access or protection of Russian speaking minorities then maybe nowhere is next or perhaps Finland though I doubt it.

Why do you believe this crass Alternative Right nonsense? Trying to empathise and justify the actions of a megalomaniac dictator? It's sickening. 'Good old uncle Vladimir is a decent chap, really. He's just so misunderstood, poor thing'

The minute you start sympathising with dictators, you're making excuses for killing innocent people. It's about time people stopped doing it. It's pathetic and it's crass.

I find it particularly distasteful that the people who do this are typing from behind a screen in their cosy little houses, and are afforded this right only because you are lucky enough to live in a country which fought at least one previous dictator so that you don't now live in a totalitarian regime. They also live in a country with free speech and a nuclear deterrent.

It's easy to play at dictator-sympathising when your house isn't the one bulldozed to the ground. When you weren't the woman giving birth in a maternity hospital when it was targeted by Russian bombs.

nomoretoriesforme · 15/07/2024 16:42

@Emmanuelll
I hope you do understand that the political elite don't really care about Ukraine. If they ever did, the war would have been stopped long time ago and they would not have allowed this total mess to happen. No point in spitting your saliva on here- go and protest in front of number 10 if you want to make a difference.

tamade · 15/07/2024 16:43

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 15:18

To determine where does Putin invade next, it might be worth trying to work out why he invaded Ukraine. Then look at other countries where similar circumstances exist. If you think it is because he ran out of babies to eat, well I guess anywhere with babies could be next. If you think it is about EU/NATO encroachment, Black sea access or protection of Russian speaking minorities then maybe nowhere is next or perhaps Finland though I doubt it.

Why do you believe this crass Alternative Right nonsense? Trying to empathise and justify the actions of a megalomaniac dictator? It's sickening. 'Good old uncle Vladimir is a decent chap, really. He's just so misunderstood, poor thing'

The minute you start sympathising with dictators, you're making excuses for killing innocent people. It's about time people stopped doing it. It's pathetic and it's crass.

I find it particularly distasteful that the people who do this are typing from behind a screen in their cosy little houses, and are afforded this right only because you are lucky enough to live in a country which fought at least one previous dictator so that you don't now live in a totalitarian regime. They also live in a country with free speech and a nuclear deterrent.

It's easy to play at dictator-sympathising when your house isn't the one bulldozed to the ground. When you weren't the woman giving birth in a maternity hospital when it was targeted by Russian bombs.

So you do think simples; he’s run out of babies?!?!

Got it

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 16:46

nomoretoriesforme · 15/07/2024 16:42

@Emmanuelll
I hope you do understand that the political elite don't really care about Ukraine. If they ever did, the war would have been stopped long time ago and they would not have allowed this total mess to happen. No point in spitting your saliva on here- go and protest in front of number 10 if you want to make a difference.

It's a shame your only way of arguing a point is with rudeness.

It's also a shame that you've been drawn into the 'Qanon deep state' rubbish.

TempestTost · 15/07/2024 16:59

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 15:18

To determine where does Putin invade next, it might be worth trying to work out why he invaded Ukraine. Then look at other countries where similar circumstances exist. If you think it is because he ran out of babies to eat, well I guess anywhere with babies could be next. If you think it is about EU/NATO encroachment, Black sea access or protection of Russian speaking minorities then maybe nowhere is next or perhaps Finland though I doubt it.

Why do you believe this crass Alternative Right nonsense? Trying to empathise and justify the actions of a megalomaniac dictator? It's sickening. 'Good old uncle Vladimir is a decent chap, really. He's just so misunderstood, poor thing'

The minute you start sympathising with dictators, you're making excuses for killing innocent people. It's about time people stopped doing it. It's pathetic and it's crass.

I find it particularly distasteful that the people who do this are typing from behind a screen in their cosy little houses, and are afforded this right only because you are lucky enough to live in a country which fought at least one previous dictator so that you don't now live in a totalitarian regime. They also live in a country with free speech and a nuclear deterrent.

It's easy to play at dictator-sympathising when your house isn't the one bulldozed to the ground. When you weren't the woman giving birth in a maternity hospital when it was targeted by Russian bombs.

This is not some kind of pop psychology problem for people to prove their good person credentials.

It's global politics, and we damn well better understand what Putin wants and why he makes the choices he does, because it's the only way to make decisions that will be effective.

When the rubber meets the road it's realpolitik that matters, not ideological guff.

There are reasons for Putin's actions, and concrete goals. Some are rooted in what he thinks Russia is, as a kind of visionary perspective, but it's also about strategy and political alliances.

Ukraine becoming more influenced by the west, and especially the government being politically controlled by the west, or even worse, the country joining NATO, is a huge issue for Russia.

And frankly that is no surprise, it's not different than what you would see if the situation was reversed. And say, Scotland became independent and entered a military alliance with Russia and China.

This doesn't mean anyone loves Putin or thinks war is great. But you have to understand and deal with the political and geographic realities.

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 17:11

Yes, you do have to understand what he might do next, but that's the whole point isn't it? You have to understand that other leaders don't necessarily have the same values as the UK. That doesn't mean you start making excuses for dictators.

There are far too many Putin simps for my liking and I'm just calling it out. Why do you think Blair has ruined his legacy? Because he helped to start an illegal war which most of the UK was against.

Clearly, this has been a stressful line to tread since the beginning of the invasion because of Russia's nuclear weapons. A wrong move would be (would have been) catastrophic so I think you perhaps underestimate those making strategic decisions.

nomoretoriesforme · 15/07/2024 17:17

@Emmanuelll A bit rich coming from you! If you post aggressive insulting and condescending messages- you should expect the same in return

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 17:19

nomoretoriesforme · 15/07/2024 17:17

@Emmanuelll A bit rich coming from you! If you post aggressive insulting and condescending messages- you should expect the same in return

You're the one getting your posts deleted because you can't make a point without a personal attack.

haveatye · 15/07/2024 17:20

daisychain01 · 15/07/2024 12:53

I'm confused- I associate right wing with Republicans (UK Tory/Conservative) and left wing with Democrats (UK Labour)

@daisychain01 democrats are left of centre, republicans are right of centre but the US centre isn't the same as the UK centre. So the whole lot is shifted a few positions to the right compared to our politics.

Things we take for granted like the welfare state are controversial in the US. There are people who don't believe government should exist at all, leave everything to individuals.

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 17:22

Republicans are not right of centre. They're nowhere near the centre...

Emmanuelll · 15/07/2024 17:25

If you consider that most republican states are very pro death penalty then that wouldn't align with centre / right would it?

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