Sister is in contact with convicted paedophile - what to do??

[jasmine465]

I'm absolutely reeling after a discussion with my sister last night.

Background is, my sister in her late 20's, lives independently but could be considered vulnerable, she has a plethora of mental health problems and a history of being manipulated by people, as well as being the manipulator herself in certain situations. We have been on and off not in contact over the last decade, always instigated by me due to poor behaviour on her part, but have been in regular contact, meeting up etc since the birth of my daughter 18 months ago. She absolutely dotes on my daughter, and while I would never leave her in sole charge of her, I have been happily leaving them playing downstairs for example while I get on with housework.

My sister has a male friend (we shall call him Dave) who she met in primary school and they have been friends for years. He's always been a support to her during her mental health struggles and he is probably her closest, oldest friend.

We met up for a family event last night, and she had a phone all and disappeared for about 45 minutes talking on the phone. When she got back I asked who it was and she told me it was Dave. I asked after him and she told me something about him having moved away for work. I said I was sorry to hear that as I knew they'd been close, and the conversation moved on.

Much later in the evening, we were chatting about plans and I asked if she had plans to go and meet Dave in his new city and when she last saw him etc. She then disclosed that he hadn't moved away at all and he was actually in prison. She said he had been 'accused of being a paedo, but it was all lies'.

I googled his name, and an article came up from when he was sentenced, which was over a year ago - he was convicted of sexual assault of a child, forcing a child to commit sexual acts and making indecent photos of children. It was two little girls he abused and he is currently serving a 5 year prison sentence and will be on the sex offenders register for life.

Obviously, these crimes are abhorrent and are a HUGE deal. Talking to my sister, she claims she knows the mother of the children and she has made it all up, he didn't do it and was advised to plead guilty. She seems to genuinely believe he has been fitted up and is innocent. She said she has been in regular contact with him, receiving phone calls from prison and has visited him on several occasions with his parents.

My first instinct was to cut her off completely and never allow her near my family again as she is knowingly in touch with a convicted paedophile, who I'm sure she will meet up with in person when he's released, given she's visited him in prison. Now having slept on it, I'm not sure if, given her vulnerabilities, I should attempt to reason with her and get her to see that he must be guilty? The news article lays out what evidence the police found in order to convict him - there is no way someone has been able to fabricate this. Having said that, I also know if I did this and gave her an ultimatum about her being in contact with him, there is a reasonable chance she would just carry on in secret and lie to me about it. She has form for doing this.

I'd really appreciate some insights into this and any advice on what to do going forward. I'm absolutely disgusted about the whole situation.

Same, no children and I also believe - as stated upthread - that contact should cease.

The majority of people on Mumsnet and presumably this thread are probably parents and some may even be grandparents too.
Either way, I don’t think it’s about parents vs non-parents.

As a former educator and social services professional there were plenty of parents who put their kids in very risky situations.

Prison security has never been more lax / under more strain

most prisoners do have at least some access to phones and internet (albeit illegally) and given she is vulnerable I could easily see a situation where she is sending pictures of “what she did at the weekend” etc which include your
child.

i would get guidance from her case worker / care worker and follow it closely.

Exactly, as least until the sister cuts contact with the convicted paedophile.

Given the sister's history of lying and manipulation and her belief that Dave is innocent, I would not believe her if she claimed to have cut contact. And given they've been friends twenty years, I don't believe she ever will. She'll never be safe to be around OP's daughter.

A further thanks for all responses on this thread.

I spoke to my mum this evening and she is appalled - we have agreed to take some time to process before deciding further steps, but she fully supports our decision to not allow any further contact with my daughter.

I'm not sure how the system works with regard to him being charged and convicted, but Dave attended a family party at my house in august 2022 - he was then sentenced in March 2023, so 7 months later. There were some young children present. Is it likely he would have been arrested and charged by this point, if he was then sentenced in the following March? To the best of my knowledge he didn't serve any time on remand. I want to know if my sister could have known about the charges at that time, and still chose to expose our family to him - if this is the case, I think pretty much everyone will cut her off.

It’s mutiple years to get to trial - so yes he would’ve been charged.

We don't know at what stage he pleaded guilty. It may not have taken that long.

Even so, the investigation would have taken a long time. The it would’ve taken time to go from the Maj to Crown. Then p&p hearings. It really will have taken that long.

I wonder if OP's sister knew about it then - was he already lying about being framed, or keeping quiet about it?

op

you have gone NC with your sister in the past due to her “bad behaviour”. What on earth has she done before?

She lives independently, in her late twenties, has “mild learning difficulties” and yet..,, she has a social worker. Why?!

Just cut contact permanently OP you have a child now.

With that information I double down on my original cut contact comment.

I used to work in admin for what is sort of the Scottish version of the CPS (the procurator fiscal)and from my experience there seeing the gap in time between people getting charged and sentencing , I think it’s very likely he would’ve been charged by the time he came to your family party.

Of course whether your sister knew or not at that point is another story. She may not tell the truth but is there any way you can ask her in person and then watch her reaction.

but Dave attended a family party at my house in august 2022 - he was then sentenced in March 2023, so 7 months later. There were some young children present.

and you didn’t think to mention this in your OP 🧐

I don't know why people are saying to cut your sister off. You are the guardian of your children. You've already said that you don't allow her take your children anywhere alone, so I can't see how simply being friends with him is putting your children at any risk.

My children have 4 aunts and 6 uncles. They know none of their friends. None of their friends have ever been in my house. I've never invited any of them for Christmas!

I do believe your sister is vulnerable and is probably being used by this man who sees her vulnerability. She may even have been abused by him herself. But I don't see why that means you should cut her off. She's also a victim. I'd be more inclined to keep her close and keep an eye on her. There is no reason whatsoever that your children will ever be in danger of being anywhere near this man so cutting off your sister seems unnecessary.

And just another perspective to consider from someone who has teenagers - which are more difficult to shelter and protect than a little one, but also still very vulnerable to putting themselves in situations that are dangerous/end badly.

Right now, your sister herself may pose no threat to your daughter and Dave is in prison and your daughter will be supervised around your sister. But your sister and your daughter will build a relationship - possibly a close one. The intent of building close family relationships is to have people in your child's life they can love unconditionally and trust. But if your sister continues a relationship (friendship or otherwise) with Dave, she can't be trusted to put your daughter's best interest first, or you to trust her.

Then down the track, when your daughter is branching out, gaining independence etc, heading out with friends to the park, the shops etc - she's not always supervised. If your daughter meets/bumps into your sister when out, how would she suspect that any company with her auntie (ie. Dave) is actually a predator? And a predator that may well have been fed info about your daughter over the years - the things she likes, her hobbies, her favourite foods/bands/music/interests. Dave could well come across as nice guy, who speaks to her about these interests, shares her hobby - basically has already a massive headstart on grooming her, as he's already got an "in" by being a friend of her auntie and knowing more about her than she knows about him.

I would be very blunt with your sister. Dave has been found guilty by a court of law deeming him guilty to beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of 12. She only has "his word" that he's innocent and quite frankly that isn't enough to exonerate him in your mind. It is your duty to your daughter to never knowingly open the door to such abusers, and if your sister is willingly keeping his friendship, that puts your daughter at risk. If she stays in touch with Dave, she won't be staying in touch with you or your daughter. You could never trust her to put your daughter's welfare in front of a convicted abuser.

I would cut out too but if you decide to have a relationship, I'd ensure it's always somewhere neutral like a coffee shop.

And ditto for your parents. They don't get pics of your DD at their house if DSis is over there with free reign.

Parents need to be clued into the rules and you all need to be on the same page or if doesn't matter what boundaries you put in place if they are the weak point showing pics and talking about your life to her.

@TupperJen explains this very well and paints a picture of why it matters long term. The normalisation of having your sister around is the problem. So if you keep the relationship with her, it needs to not involve DD.

So if she was mixing with and supporting a serial killer it's ok to have people like that involved in your life. It's always best to put family first but sadly there are times when despite being a relative they are no longer welcome. My thoughts are still the same, cut her out, explain why and tell her she is welcone back into the family when she ditches her association with a convicted paedophile. There are professionals who agree with this stance.

I don't know why people are saying to cut your sister off. You are the guardian of your children. You've already said that you don't allow her take your children anywhere alone, so I can't see how simply being friends with him is putting your children at any risk.

That is honestly just madness.

There is absolutely no way that she can keep seeing her sister and guarantee that her daughter will not be alone with her sister. You might be able to keep that up for a couple of months but you would start to relax back in to the way things were.

What would the OP say to her daughter if she, the OP, were going in to the kitchen to make a cup of tea?

'Lucy you have to come into the kitchen with me because I can't leave you alone with Auntie Sue'

Two words: Vanessa George.

I don't know why people are saying to cut your sister off. You are the guardian of your children. You've already said that you don't allow her take your children anywhere alone, so I can't see how simply being friends with him is putting your children at any risk

I won’t even repeat myself but there are pages upon pages of posters on this thread- including myself - clearly stating in detail why there are risks to her sister remaining in contact with Dave the child sex offender while she continues to nurture her relationship with her niece.

My children have 4 aunts and 6 uncles. They know none of their friends. None of their friends have ever been in my house. I've never invited any of them for Christmas

Well that’s irrelevant to Op, because her family / social set up is clearly different, she has already said that Dave was at a family event a couple of years back where there were children present. As a result of their sister’s friendship, this paedophile has already been socialising around their family/friends kids.

I do believe your sister is vulnerable and is probably being used by this man who sees her vulnerability. She may even have been abused by him herself. But I don't see why that means you should cut her off

Do people think being “vulnerable” doesn’t mean you’re not a risk to others? Especially to even more vulnerable people such as children? When I used to work in social services some of the people who posed a risk to children were other vulnerable (often older) children/siblings. Sadly we had to keep some siblings apart for their safety.

My children have 4 aunts and 6 uncles. They know none of their friends. None of their friends have ever been in my house. I've never invited any of them for Christmas

So what? I've got a blue car but that's got no relevance to the OP's situation either.

Another thing to consider -is there a chance that your child being even tangentially involved with s paedophile might cause you to end up with social services at your door?