Sister is in contact with convicted paedophile - what to do??

[jasmine465]

I'm absolutely reeling after a discussion with my sister last night.

Background is, my sister in her late 20's, lives independently but could be considered vulnerable, she has a plethora of mental health problems and a history of being manipulated by people, as well as being the manipulator herself in certain situations. We have been on and off not in contact over the last decade, always instigated by me due to poor behaviour on her part, but have been in regular contact, meeting up etc since the birth of my daughter 18 months ago. She absolutely dotes on my daughter, and while I would never leave her in sole charge of her, I have been happily leaving them playing downstairs for example while I get on with housework.

My sister has a male friend (we shall call him Dave) who she met in primary school and they have been friends for years. He's always been a support to her during her mental health struggles and he is probably her closest, oldest friend.

We met up for a family event last night, and she had a phone all and disappeared for about 45 minutes talking on the phone. When she got back I asked who it was and she told me it was Dave. I asked after him and she told me something about him having moved away for work. I said I was sorry to hear that as I knew they'd been close, and the conversation moved on.

Much later in the evening, we were chatting about plans and I asked if she had plans to go and meet Dave in his new city and when she last saw him etc. She then disclosed that he hadn't moved away at all and he was actually in prison. She said he had been 'accused of being a paedo, but it was all lies'.

I googled his name, and an article came up from when he was sentenced, which was over a year ago - he was convicted of sexual assault of a child, forcing a child to commit sexual acts and making indecent photos of children. It was two little girls he abused and he is currently serving a 5 year prison sentence and will be on the sex offenders register for life.

Obviously, these crimes are abhorrent and are a HUGE deal. Talking to my sister, she claims she knows the mother of the children and she has made it all up, he didn't do it and was advised to plead guilty. She seems to genuinely believe he has been fitted up and is innocent. She said she has been in regular contact with him, receiving phone calls from prison and has visited him on several occasions with his parents.

My first instinct was to cut her off completely and never allow her near my family again as she is knowingly in touch with a convicted paedophile, who I'm sure she will meet up with in person when he's released, given she's visited him in prison. Now having slept on it, I'm not sure if, given her vulnerabilities, I should attempt to reason with her and get her to see that he must be guilty? The news article lays out what evidence the police found in order to convict him - there is no way someone has been able to fabricate this. Having said that, I also know if I did this and gave her an ultimatum about her being in contact with him, there is a reasonable chance she would just carry on in secret and lie to me about it. She has form for doing this.

I'd really appreciate some insights into this and any advice on what to do going forward. I'm absolutely disgusted about the whole situation.

Cut her out of your life until this relationship has ended. Report her to social services for acting like an accomplice to a convicted paedophile. I'd also explain her vulnerability. This man could exploit her to the extent she could eventually be charged with aiding & abetting a pedophile. It's hard as shes a family member. You are involved now & need to be cruel to be kind 💐

I don't know why people are acting like she's in a romantic relationship with this friend. It sounds they've been friends for a couple of decades (possibly more). There's nothing in the OP to suggest it's romantic/sexual or has ever been. There's certainly no suggestion of them spending Christmasses together, him moving in etc.

Is Claire’s law not to find out background info on potentially dangerous men? We already know he’s a convicted paedo and the sister is still sticking by him so I don’t see how that would help in this circumstance.

Just because someone is vulnerable or doesn’t mean they don’t have the capacity to do great harm whether with or without malicious intent. OP has already said the sister can be manipulative.

I think some people on MN have a hard time acknowledging that sometimes women are complicit in the abuse of a child. If it was OPs brother I feel there would be less excuses made.

By all means report OP should report this to the adult services or whatever so they can examine risk to her sister, but that doesn’t mean OP shouldn’t be doing her own risk assessment to evaluate the risk to her child.

Just because something is legal or not banned by social services it doesn’t mean it’s a great idea. I had a (now former) friend who was dating a sex offender, he was legally allowed to be around her female friends and relative but it was morally questionable and very unwise IMO.

The threshold required for social services to intervene can be quite high. This decision is definitely not a judgement OP should leave down to them, in terms of taking action to protect her child

Yes, and I would have a no phones/cameras rule around my child whilst she's in contact with him.

SIL is a DC working in child safety/protection and DV unit. I ran this past her, she said she would cut contact. She has seen too many similar situations.

Why does a woman in her late twenties with “mild learning difficulties”

have a social worker?

Sorry! no idea how I managed to click 'quote ' on your post instead of the post above yours, hadn't even read yours until now

Oh my @jasmine465 !
I would be devastated with that news.
Your sister is vulnerable and easily manipulated.
Even if you did not allow your daughter to be in her company could she meet up with her at your parents without you knowing ?
If your parents perhaps were babysitting and unbeknownst to you your sister was there.
I'm stunned "Dave" is allowed 45 minutes on the phone to one person while in prison.
Is the phone illegal? Do check that out and report it if it is.

Claires Law would inform of anything else that her sister may not be aware of, whilst there will be some information in the public sphere there will be more information available via this and Sarah's Law requests. Of course the OP is to do her own assessment, presumably this is why she's asking for opinions on here.

Personally I wouldn't allow any contact between the sister and child/neice, but this doesn't mean the entire relationship between two sisters needs to cease, it sounds like the sister needs support to make an informed decision, as opposed to believing his implausible narrative around the reasons he's in prison and the fact he's a very real risk to children and adults alike.

@jasmine465 - I’d missed the part about him already having been in prison for 18+ months so @mrstreacle is right- assuming he’s not caused problems while inside, “Dave” is probably due for release before Christmas.

I was involved in a few child protection cases as a teacher. In every case the new woman insisted he was innocent, had not downloaded those photographs, it was all a set up. One I remember went on to have a baby with him. That would be my greatest worry, that on release she’ll get pregnant by him.
If you cut her off you have no control over what may happen, you won’t know what’s going on in her life. But obviously you keep your daughter with you or only meet up when your daughter is looked after by someone else. Also stop photos being taken of your dd. He may have asked for pics to be passed on.
You could notify social services for the area where she lives , I’m sure they’d have the trail to her SW or case worker.

It is these vulnerabilities though that put op's child at risk even more. It takes seconds for a pic to be taken, op at the toilet, making a cup of tea etc. The fact this man will know you have a child, is in contact with your sister, would know the school went to etc. Cut all contact. She is too unstable. Your child comes first. I don't see a choice here.

No I wouldn’t cut her off.

She’s not the peado, she’s just standing by soneone she has known for many years and truly believes is innocent.

If this was a man she’d only known for a couple of years, then my opinion would be very different.

Obviously you have to be careful with her, incase he manipulates her into taking photos or anything but that can happen with any man she meets.

Does he also have learning difficulties?

Is she in a relationship with Dave or anyone else?

@Choochoo21 any children?

i would be interested in the breakdown of views of those with children and those without

Like a PP has already said, the ‘he was advised to plead guilty’ line is one as old as time, to try and dupe anyone likely to believe it.

The only reason someone would be advised this is if their own barrister doesn’t think they can get them off. The barrister only has to put the slightest doubt in two or three jury members minds and their client will get acquitted, they’d be an idiot to tell someone to plead guilty if there was any suggestion the barrister saw a weakness in the prosecution case they could try and exploit.

This also means Dave got a reduction in his sentence so chances are he was likely to get 7-8 years rather than 5

Does pointing out the blatantly obvious not have any effect on your DSis? Or have you already tried this to no avail?

People saying “just don’t let her take photos” is that really going to work? 😳 she’ll be able to tell him all sorts about her.. just so so gross what he’ll do with that info.

Yes I have children.

Even if OPs sister cut this man off, doesn’t mean her next partner won’t be a peado that just hadn’t been caught.

Just because someone hasn’t been convicted, doesn’t mean they are safe.
And I think the same caution should bd applied to this man, as any other man in her life.

OPs sister is vulnerable and she could be more at risk from this man or other men, if OP cut all contact.

If it was my sister, then I wouldn’t cut contact but I wouldn’t leave my child alone with her etc.

It would be very different if she hadn’t known this man long.
Then I wouldn’t think twice about cutting contact but this is someone she has known for a long time and believes he’s innocent.

No children, but taught for 40 years.

I can't expand on the post I made upthread, but it's informed my views. Cut contact.

Your sister is free to mix with who she chooses (wise or not). As long as he is not allowed around your child, you don’t need to get involved.

Your post deserves repeating. Somebody who actually knows what they are talking about.

Have also spent too long professionally involved. Agree with every word.

If your DD is 18 months, and he was sentenced a year ago to 5 years, then he'll likely be out in 18 months...

Your DS has just made herself an unsafe adult. From now on she cannot be unsupervised with any child - yours or later on and of your DDs friends.

You can say it out right, but you still have to make sure she's never alone with DD. Saying she can't take photos is as useful as a chocolate teapot. If she's going to do it she'll find a way.

So either absolutely no contact or only closely supervised contact with strict rules that you never relax.

She’s brainwashed.

I was abused as a child by a convicted sex offender. He was able to abuse me because people around him believed he was “wrongly convicted” he was a serious manipulator. He even had a parent of a young child who was a character witness for him in Court (I have no doubt he also abused her child, who refused to speak to police or in court).

He went onto abuse again after his prison sentence.

I digress. But these people are so good at what they do. Now your sister is in his grip the best thing you can do is step away.

It's not just the risk of this bloke harming your child. You also need to consider the social impact as she gets older. If news gets out that your sister likes the company of a convicted child rapist your DD will become a social pariah.

I would get her to tell me who her caseworker is and explain to them that she is being groomed by a paedophile.
I would maintain contact with her but never leave her with my daughter. In effect do as you're doing. Obviously, Dave doesn't even get close.

I can't see any immediate danger to your daughter but this is why you speak to a professional. I would also speak to the probation officer in Dave's prison and flag your daughter up as a potential victim. Again, follow their advice

Your sister is a vulnerable person and needs protection. It's not fair to penalise her for sticking with a friend who up to now has been good to her. She needs support rather than censure as she's quite childlike herself.

The practicalities of those would be very complicated though if you were to keep seeing her.

Every time you are together and you need to go to the toilet or you go thirty metres away in a park to buy an ice cream you have to take your daughter with you. If you have to go in the kitchen to get an and it takes twenty seconds tissue do you take her? If she falls in the back garden and you want to get a wipe from the bathroom cabinets do you have to take your daughter?