Sister is in contact with convicted paedophile - what to do??

[jasmine465]

I'm absolutely reeling after a discussion with my sister last night.

Background is, my sister in her late 20's, lives independently but could be considered vulnerable, she has a plethora of mental health problems and a history of being manipulated by people, as well as being the manipulator herself in certain situations. We have been on and off not in contact over the last decade, always instigated by me due to poor behaviour on her part, but have been in regular contact, meeting up etc since the birth of my daughter 18 months ago. She absolutely dotes on my daughter, and while I would never leave her in sole charge of her, I have been happily leaving them playing downstairs for example while I get on with housework.

My sister has a male friend (we shall call him Dave) who she met in primary school and they have been friends for years. He's always been a support to her during her mental health struggles and he is probably her closest, oldest friend.

We met up for a family event last night, and she had a phone all and disappeared for about 45 minutes talking on the phone. When she got back I asked who it was and she told me it was Dave. I asked after him and she told me something about him having moved away for work. I said I was sorry to hear that as I knew they'd been close, and the conversation moved on.

Much later in the evening, we were chatting about plans and I asked if she had plans to go and meet Dave in his new city and when she last saw him etc. She then disclosed that he hadn't moved away at all and he was actually in prison. She said he had been 'accused of being a paedo, but it was all lies'.

I googled his name, and an article came up from when he was sentenced, which was over a year ago - he was convicted of sexual assault of a child, forcing a child to commit sexual acts and making indecent photos of children. It was two little girls he abused and he is currently serving a 5 year prison sentence and will be on the sex offenders register for life.

Obviously, these crimes are abhorrent and are a HUGE deal. Talking to my sister, she claims she knows the mother of the children and she has made it all up, he didn't do it and was advised to plead guilty. She seems to genuinely believe he has been fitted up and is innocent. She said she has been in regular contact with him, receiving phone calls from prison and has visited him on several occasions with his parents.

My first instinct was to cut her off completely and never allow her near my family again as she is knowingly in touch with a convicted paedophile, who I'm sure she will meet up with in person when he's released, given she's visited him in prison. Now having slept on it, I'm not sure if, given her vulnerabilities, I should attempt to reason with her and get her to see that he must be guilty? The news article lays out what evidence the police found in order to convict him - there is no way someone has been able to fabricate this. Having said that, I also know if I did this and gave her an ultimatum about her being in contact with him, there is a reasonable chance she would just carry on in secret and lie to me about it. She has form for doing this.

I'd really appreciate some insights into this and any advice on what to do going forward. I'm absolutely disgusted about the whole situation.

Your child comes first. Your sister cannot be around them.

I would bet she has romantic feelings for him, and refuses to see through the haze. Refuses to accept the evidence that convicted him. She is therefore already unreliable.

Your sister is both vulnerable and manipulative, and is being groomed - from prison - by a convicted paedophile.

She is under the influence of a proven abuser of vulnerable people. What happens when he gets out? Time off for good behaviour? Imagine the angle - 'you're my only friend ... Can we meet?' What if a relationship develops?

I would go all out to learn who her social worker etc is - and report what is happening to them. She also needs protecting, angry though you are.

i'm responding to the posters who seem to think photos of non-related children are just handed over during a visit or sent via prison mail to convicted child sexual offenders Fucking hell. Nobody thinks that photos of children are just handed over or sent through the mail. Nobody thinks that videos of men having sex with female prison officers are just sent through the post either, but the media managed to get hold of it recently. He’s a convicted criminal. Do you think he’s not going to do something like buy a mobile phone in prison because it’s illegal? If he wants images, even completely innocent images of the OP’s FB profile, he’s going to get them. By your logic, the OP shouldn’t worry about safeguarding her daughter’s image until he has been charged and convicted of having a mobile phone. She’s a parent. It’s her job to stop those risks before they happen, wherever she can.

A paedophile sympathiser would be someone who sympathises with paedophiles. Thinks it's not all that bad, or that we shouldn't judge them harshly or that children really want it or whatever.

OPs sister has mental health issues, mild learning disabilities and this is her oldest. closest friend that she's known from primary school and who has supported her with her mental health and she does not believe at all, that he has committed the offences her friend has been convicted of.

She's not a paedophile sympathiser if she doesn't believe he is a paedophile and doesn't have the cognitive ability to critically analyse the situation and the evidence against him.

But yeah. let's continue as has been seen in this thread, to assume she's of the 'same ilk' as a paedophile, a 'paedophile sympathiser' and likely to abuse or be complicit in the sexual abuse of children and passing on photos to Dave in prison, passing on fantasy nursery passwords which she'd never be given anyway so Dave can rape the niece she dotes on which is OPs child which OP has completely safeguarded anyway.

And you're even saying that OP Dsis is a potential ongoing risk to OPs DC in the future? " even if OP can't keep her DD away from her sister now, there'll be a time in the future when she can't if they have a relationship"

Some excellent blaming, ableism and suggesting to isolate vulnerable, mentally and neurodevelopmentally challenged women on this thread.

Who will likely be the same ones posting the threads about abused or murdered women and children and complaining about involvement from authorities and why their families didn't do anything..

Advised by who to plead guilty? His Solicitor. They must have known that the evidence was stacked against him as there’s no way a any decent Solicitor would advise their client to plead guilty unless like l said the evidence was stacked against them (just to get a lighter sentence.) Aside from all that if I hadn’t done something I was accused of theres no way I’d be pleading guilty. I’d be damn well fighting to clear my name (fuck getting a lighter sentence if I was somehow found guilty) I’d be more than prepared to risk a heavy sentence to clear my good name. My freedom Id get back. My good name I never would.
More to the point the CPS wouldn’t have even let the case go to court. Therefore he’s very guilty. However you can’t force or even convince your sister to believe that because he’s undoubtedly manipulated her.
I don’t think I could carry on a relationship with my sister or anyone for that matter if there were chummy with a paedo and I’m sure they’d say the same about me.

I was about to post the same. I worked in public protection.
He is grooming your sister, either to abuse her or more likely for her to give him a gateway to abuse other children.

This.
I'd be informing her case worker due to her vulnerability.
Stay in contact with your sister.
Never agree to ever socialise with the man.

It could be worse - what if she ever decided to have her own children and allowed her convicted friend near them?

You do realise you can't catch paedophilia?
Atm, he is still in prison. If before he is released, the OPs sister sees the light, there won't be an issue
If however, the sister remains convinced of his innocence and plans to see him upon his release, then the OP of course, should be ensuring that they don't come near her kids.

The person is in prison. I think it is premature to be making Christmas plans.

Based on the situation that I referred to in an earlier comment, you don't want to risk contact with someone who is in contact with a paedophile.

In complete innocence, the OP's sister could be passing on information about the OP's family.

The man is a rapist, not the sister. Why is she suddenly guilty by association? Does she also has a criminal record? Because I missed that part of the story.

Do not leave your daughter with her alone ever again even if you're in the next room. He may manipulate her into taking photos and because she's slow she might not understand what is right and wrong

No she hasn't got 5 years, she's got a year at most. Have you all missed where the OP says that he's been in prison since before the child was born? That mean he's already done 18 or or more month so there is not much time left before he is released. Possible even less as the Government is letting prisoners out early

Did you actually read the post I quoted and responded to at the top of that post?

That said "if the sister is being groomed, i'd be worried she's already sent him a photo (of OPs DC) or given one during a visit, it doesn't have to be an explicit one"

So yeah, some people do 'fucking' think they're sent through the mail or handed over during visits.

I was reassuring those people it's not that easy to get contraband in prison though it happens.

And i think you have really 'fucking' poor comprehension skills and know likely 'fuck all' about what is going on.

Like I said, illegal phones, sim cards etc are 'fucking' rife in prison but it requires someone taking them in. Which would require the OPs Dsis risking a conviction and prison term smuggling him in contraband which are images of children.

When what we're talking about here is an OP who has a Dsis who is in contact with an old friend in prison who is a convicted paedophile.

And OP has always taken care to safeguard her DC and now will take more safeguarding measures.

And there is no 'fucking' suggestion whatsoever that OPs Dsis is a paedophile, a paedophile sympathiser, complicit in paedophilia or committing criminal offences smuggling in contraband into prison. Or planning to be in a romantic or sexual relationship with this man after his release and provide him with sexual abuse victims.

So posters need to chill the 'fuck' out with the paedophile hysteria which they somehow think has infected OPs Dsis and by association is a current and future risk to DC. Based on nothing.

There's zero evidence she's doing anything than having monitored calls and visits with an old friend that is in prison and going to be for at least another year or two.

OPs sister is being groomed by a convicted paedophile and is already making excuses for him. That includes potentially photos of OPs child etc. I am beyond astounded that some posters don't see the issue with this.

Late twenties
has “mild learning difficulties”

and yet she has a social worker. Seems somewhat…. excessive 🤔

and why am i not surprised by We have been on and off not in contact over the last decade, always instigated by me due to poor behaviour on her part. I knew there would be prior family drama.

Shat has her “bad behaviour” involved in the past op?

We see the issue. We just don't agree that cutting sister off is the answer. She is, potentially, a victim in this but is being treated like a criminal.

So you’ve gone NC in the past Op.

Worse than starting a relationship with an imprisoned convicted paedophile

I dread to think

You have spectacularly missed the point.

OPs sister has mental health issues, mild learning disabilities and this is her oldest. closest friend that she's known from primary school and who has supported her with her mental health and she does not believe at all, that he has committed the offences her friend has been convicted of Meaning she’s not best placed to see when she’s being groomed or manipulated into doing things by a convicted sex offender that seem innocent enough individually, but when taken in the round are actually pretty terrifying.

Some excellent blaming, ableism and suggesting to isolate vulnerable, mentally and neurodevelopmentally challenged women on this thread Sod right off with your blaming and ableism. This isn’t about the sister. It’s about eliminating a risk to a child from damage that will last her the rest of her life. And the sister’s belief that Dave is innocent, as well as her history of lying and manipulation means that her presence in the child’s life isn’t compatible with this.

Who will likely be the same ones posting the threads about abused or murdered women and children and complaining about involvement from authorities and why their families didn't do anything.. Abused children? The posters on here are advising the OP and her family to do something to eliminate a risk of a child being abused. Are they supposed to pretend this risk doesn’t exist so that they can try to protect the OP’s sister? Who lies and manipulates if she feels the need to do so? Why does she come before the OP’s child?

The very first thing I would be doing is finding out which prison 'Dave's' held in and finding out who his Case manager/ Custody Case Manager /Prison Offender Manager is. Then I would be accepting how ever long and often I had to sit on the phone until I could talk to that person. I would insist on a direct conversation whilst stating I'm happy to follow it up with an email/in writing, but not until I know I have delivered my concerns in person directly to the person directly responsible for reducing the likelihood of 'Dave' re offending.
I would give details of your sister as a vulnerable person who is supposed to be receiving support from adult social services and state that you believe she should be removed from his prison contact list as a result of her vulnerabilities.

I don't want to go into too much detail but I've followed this route with a different type of sex offender and his pre existing friendship with a vulnerable woman who knew one of his victims, and was sure he couldn't be guilty of what he'd been charged with and pleaded guilty to and was being contacted from prison, including being tapped for cash. It's worth finding out if she's putting money on his account as it's one of the easiest 'red flags' for a prison to get 'busy' over.

It may be cruel but in the situation I was dealing with, breaking her sense of being needed by him in a sad situation by him withdrawing contact from her (it was done for him but she didn't know that) gave me the chance to work on her certainty of who he 'really' was, her perceptions around men, and eventually when she said she was worried about him as she'd heard nothing, telling her he'd probably been boasting about how he was using her to others in prison, and prison officers had heard and decided to protect her.
(Judge me all you wish, friend and offender regardless of what he'd done, were both vulnerable people, and victim had a messy situation that left them open to becoming someones victim.)

Different police forces have very different titles for the dept you also need to speak to. But you are looking for the sexual offences unit, or child sexual offences unit and have a chat to them. They may be prepared to help you with your sisters understanding and he may just come under MAPPA. (Multi-Agency Public Protection Arrangements)

Also: when you get hold of the prison let them know how long the call was, as it may be legit on a prison phone, but IME there is a time limit per prisoner to stop phones being hogged, and they have to go to the back of the cue and re dial, or maybe that was what happened and she wasn't on the phone the whole time?
If it was continuous for 45mins, unless it's a very chilled prison, it suggests it was made on an illicit mobile, which they would be interested in.

I totally agree with this.

The grooming succession is ridiculous - they've been friends since primary school, and he's been in prison for the majority of the OPs daughter's life.

That's not to say he wouldn't use his friend having a niece to his advantage if he got the opportunity. It's easy enough to make sure he doesn't get that opportunity though, and it doesn't require the OP cutting off her sister.

If she wants to cut her off to show her disgust at having a sex offender friend, then fine, but its not necessary from a safety perspective.

you said you wouldn’t cut off in this situation

i asked whether you’d still see her with your daughter? even when he’s not around?

and would you get with family get togethers if this cretin was present?

Your sister is being a complete idiot

Honestly if you can't trust her to be honest with you, I wouldn't have anything to do with her

I don't have a sister but I do have a 3yo daughter and I wouldn't knowingly associate with a peado or someone who considers one a friend.

did people miss that the Op has gone NC in the past.

multiple times

so…. there’s obviously a very sordid history with this sister

I would try to reason with her. If she doesn't see sense then I'd at the very least not allow her alone with your DD (don't leave them alone while doing house work etc) I would also raise safeguarding with adult social care as she is being groomed.

Because there always remains the potential for her to be a gateway to OPs child. That's the issue