Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sister is in contact with convicted paedophile - what to do??

252 replies

jasmine465 · 13/07/2024 11:40

I'm absolutely reeling after a discussion with my sister last night.

Background is, my sister in her late 20's, lives independently but could be considered vulnerable, she has a plethora of mental health problems and a history of being manipulated by people, as well as being the manipulator herself in certain situations. We have been on and off not in contact over the last decade, always instigated by me due to poor behaviour on her part, but have been in regular contact, meeting up etc since the birth of my daughter 18 months ago. She absolutely dotes on my daughter, and while I would never leave her in sole charge of her, I have been happily leaving them playing downstairs for example while I get on with housework.

My sister has a male friend (we shall call him Dave) who she met in primary school and they have been friends for years. He's always been a support to her during her mental health struggles and he is probably her closest, oldest friend.

We met up for a family event last night, and she had a phone all and disappeared for about 45 minutes talking on the phone. When she got back I asked who it was and she told me it was Dave. I asked after him and she told me something about him having moved away for work. I said I was sorry to hear that as I knew they'd been close, and the conversation moved on.

Much later in the evening, we were chatting about plans and I asked if she had plans to go and meet Dave in his new city and when she last saw him etc. She then disclosed that he hadn't moved away at all and he was actually in prison. She said he had been 'accused of being a paedo, but it was all lies'.

I googled his name, and an article came up from when he was sentenced, which was over a year ago - he was convicted of sexual assault of a child, forcing a child to commit sexual acts and making indecent photos of children. It was two little girls he abused and he is currently serving a 5 year prison sentence and will be on the sex offenders register for life.

Obviously, these crimes are abhorrent and are a HUGE deal. Talking to my sister, she claims she knows the mother of the children and she has made it all up, he didn't do it and was advised to plead guilty. She seems to genuinely believe he has been fitted up and is innocent. She said she has been in regular contact with him, receiving phone calls from prison and has visited him on several occasions with his parents.

My first instinct was to cut her off completely and never allow her near my family again as she is knowingly in touch with a convicted paedophile, who I'm sure she will meet up with in person when he's released, given she's visited him in prison. Now having slept on it, I'm not sure if, given her vulnerabilities, I should attempt to reason with her and get her to see that he must be guilty? The news article lays out what evidence the police found in order to convict him - there is no way someone has been able to fabricate this. Having said that, I also know if I did this and gave her an ultimatum about her being in contact with him, there is a reasonable chance she would just carry on in secret and lie to me about it. She has form for doing this.

I'd really appreciate some insights into this and any advice on what to do going forward. I'm absolutely disgusted about the whole situation.

OP posts:
Catza · 13/07/2024 14:52

itistooeasy · 13/07/2024 14:46

you said you wouldn’t cut off in this situation

i asked whether you’d still see her with your daughter? even when he’s not around?

and would you get with family get togethers if this cretin was present?

Edited
Show quote history

I would still see my sister with my child providing the phones remained in pockets so no opportunity to make photos. OP already doesn't allow unsupervised time together so I don't see why this rule can't be enforced.
I would not be comfortable to have the man in my house or in the presence of my children. In that case, the sister would be given a choice of a quick catch up at Christmas with just her, if she was dead set on spending the rest of time with him. This is a purely hypothetical scenario because he is in prison and we don't actually know anything about the nature of their relationship to even suggest there will be family celebrations down the line.
Neither of these options necessitates cutting the sister off, as you'll notice. Does it answer your question fully?

Cremeroulety · 13/07/2024 14:52

I used to work in social services and I know this is the beginning of a slippery slope.

It’s not realistic to never let the child out her sight when her sister is visiting. What if OP suddenly feels sick and needs to go to the toilet or even the hospital? What if she trips and has an accident? What if next door neighbours have an emergency and come banging on the door asking for OP to quickly pop over ?

What if once the daughter is older she’s buying sweets at the shop with her friends and sees her Aunty with her male friend Dave?

OP, step back from her and go low or no contact but either way completely end her relationship with your daughter as long she continues to support this child sex offender.

If he was jailed for 5 years, I assume he’ll be out in 2 or 3 years?

I wouldn’t let the relationship continue in the meantime though. It will be even harder to step back from her in a few years when Dave comes out .

And also although she can’t be with him in person right now, she could sneak a quick picture for him of your niece while he’s in jail .

And he could well be accessing Facebook and already seeing whatever pictures your sister posts.

FatmanandKnobbin · 13/07/2024 14:53

HumanLeague · 13/07/2024 14:17

A paedophile sympathiser would be someone who sympathises with paedophiles. Thinks it's not all that bad, or that we shouldn't judge them harshly or that children really want it or whatever.

OPs sister has mental health issues, mild learning disabilities and this is her oldest. closest friend that she's known from primary school and who has supported her with her mental health and she does not believe at all, that he has committed the offences her friend has been convicted of.

She's not a paedophile sympathiser if she doesn't believe he is a paedophile and doesn't have the cognitive ability to critically analyse the situation and the evidence against him.

But yeah. let's continue as has been seen in this thread, to assume she's of the 'same ilk' as a paedophile, a 'paedophile sympathiser' and likely to abuse or be complicit in the sexual abuse of children and passing on photos to Dave in prison, passing on fantasy nursery passwords which she'd never be given anyway so Dave can rape the niece she dotes on which is OPs child which OP has completely safeguarded anyway.

And you're even saying that OP Dsis is a potential ongoing risk to OPs DC in the future? " even if OP can't keep her DD away from her sister now, there'll be a time in the future when she can't if they have a relationship"

Some excellent blaming, ableism and suggesting to isolate vulnerable, mentally and neurodevelopmentally challenged women on this thread.

Who will likely be the same ones posting the threads about abused or murdered women and children and complaining about involvement from authorities and why their families didn't do anything..

Show quote history

He is a convicted paedophile and she is sympathising with him. She clearly doesn't think this man should be judged.

Whether knowingly, or not, she may well become complicit in abuse.

Ops dd is brought up trusting the sister, pops over when she is 12, this guy is there, sister doesn't think its a big deal because he was 'wrongly convicted ', then what?

My main concern in this scenario is for ops dd, ops sister has multiple people looking out for her. Ops dd has her parents, who need to prioritise her over everything, including the sisters feelings.

It's not ableist to say that op should take a step back to protect her child. She won't be isolated at all, she has parents, other family, and friends, she just won't have access to a vulnerable child.

loropianalover · 13/07/2024 14:55

SummerDays2020 · 13/07/2024 14:47

I would try to reason with her. If she doesn't see sense then I'd at the very least not allow her alone with your DD (don't leave them alone while doing house work etc) I would also raise safeguarding with adult social care as she is being groomed.

I agree with this, OP needs to find her sisters care worker or whatever adult services she is engaging with. This man is grooming her probably because he knows he’ll need somewhere to stay when he gets out in a few years. He’ll start putting romantic ideas in her head soon if he hasn’t already.

I would stop all visits between sister and DC until it’s clear that she has stopped contacting him and understands the crime he has committed. Which is probably going to take a long time.

MILLYmo0se · 13/07/2024 14:59

ClonedSquare · 13/07/2024 14:02

I wouldn't risk my daughter building a close relationship with the sister in this case. It's short sighted to say it's fine as long as daughter isn't alone with sister. That works when she's a small child and can't have her own wants.

But if the daughter ends up close with the sister, what happens when she's 8 and her auntie suggests sleepovers or girls' shopping trips without mum? Or even if she doesn't suggest them but OP's daughter does because her friends do that with their aunts and uncles? Yes, OP can continue to say no but it has the cope to cause a lot of drama if OP's daughter can't understand the issue and thinks mum's just being mean (and auntie possibly feeds this by maintaining Dave isn't a problem etc).

I dont know how to explain it anymore clearly, I in these circumstances would be OK with my sister and my child being at a family event together and my child would not be out of my sight - bar the 90 seconds it would take me to pee and then they d be with their dad, if he couldn't go I wouldn't attend the event either as it would be too difficult to manage I think. Its pretty simple really, I'm in no way going to be bending over backwards to accommodate a situation where she's with my child regardless of who I offend or upset. Equally in the given circumstances I would not cut my sister off immediately.
You have different boundaries, that's fine, we disagree I guess, you think I'd be a shit mum to take this route and I don't, I dont know what else to tell you really

twistyizzy · 13/07/2024 14:59

Cremeroulety · 13/07/2024 14:52

I used to work in social services and I know this is the beginning of a slippery slope.

It’s not realistic to never let the child out her sight when her sister is visiting. What if OP suddenly feels sick and needs to go to the toilet or even the hospital? What if she trips and has an accident? What if next door neighbours have an emergency and come banging on the door asking for OP to quickly pop over ?

What if once the daughter is older she’s buying sweets at the shop with her friends and sees her Aunty with her male friend Dave?

OP, step back from her and go low or no contact but either way completely end her relationship with your daughter as long she continues to support this child sex offender.

If he was jailed for 5 years, I assume he’ll be out in 2 or 3 years?

I wouldn’t let the relationship continue in the meantime though. It will be even harder to step back from her in a few years when Dave comes out .

And also although she can’t be with him in person right now, she could sneak a quick picture for him of your niece while he’s in jail .

And he could well be accessing Facebook and already seeing whatever pictures your sister posts.

Edited

Exactly. So many incredibly naive comments on here

Redgreenfroggy · 13/07/2024 14:59

I worked with a very vulnerable women who was in the same position. She ended up getting pregnant by him 3 times and the baby being out up for adoption each time as she refused to cut contact with the father. I don’t know what happened to her since but they were determined to carry on until they were allowed to keep one. With his background they would never been allowed to keep a baby thank goodness. She was besotted by him and was under the illusion that she needed to keep getting pregnancy by him so he could be a dad

Redgreenfroggy · 13/07/2024 15:00

Just saying he could have convinced her to do anything. I even believe he could have talked her into abusing a child with him or for him. She was totally under his spell.

HumanLeague · 13/07/2024 15:01

twistyizzy · 13/07/2024 14:41

OPs sister is being groomed by a convicted paedophile and is already making excuses for him. That includes potentially photos of OPs child etc. I am beyond astounded that some posters don't see the issue with this.

Edited
Show quote history

She's ben friends with him for about 20 years since primary school. Her oldest and closet friend according to OP. Who has supported her through years of her MH problems and she trusts and believes him.

That doesn't means she isn't being manipulated but it does mean he wasn't deliberately targetting her as vulnerable and easily manipulated. They've been consistent friends for years. Including when OP was not supporting or in consistent contact with her Dsis.

Her not believing he is guilty of the crimes he has been convicted of does not mean she is at any risk of sending him explicit or any other pictures of DC at all.

That's the bottom line.

She hasn't done anything criminal or wrong.

And she does have mental health issues and mild learning disabilities.

The idea that so many MNetters seem to have, that she is a risk to DC is really ableis, grossly unfair, and not at all evidenced.

But some MNetters seem to want to indulge their paedophile hysteria and imagine all these scenarios that aren't and won't, happen.

Freddie289 · 13/07/2024 15:03

Whothefuckdoesthat · 13/07/2024 12:26

Can you absolutely, without a shadow of doubt, believe her if she tells you that you’ve convinced her of his guilt and that she won’t speak to him again? You know the answer to that question. She won’t believe in his guilt because she doesn’t want to believe in his guilt. So she’ll either fall out with you or tell you whatever she thinks you need to hear.

So you either cut her off because you want to keep your child safe and because you don’t want to have people who are friends with convicted paedophiles in your life or your child’s life, (because when someone tells you that their best friend is a monster, then asks to spend time with your child, nobody’s first thought is going to be positive) or you keep seeing her, which means you will never have another moment’s peace when she is near your child.

You sister is an adult and is free to communicate with whomever she wishes. As long as there are ground rules such as no pictures taken of your child and this man not to be invited to your house, I am not sure what else is there to do. I appreciate you may be objecting on moral grounds but, personally, this would not be a reason for me to cut off my family member This horrifies me and is completely unworkable. If a person can be friends with a convicted sex offender then they are either a) able to overlook their crimes, which speaks volumes about what sort of person they are, or b) daft enough to believe that their friend is innocent, which speaks volumes about their judgement and their susceptibility to manipulation. I am not in any way suggesting that your sister would ever intentionally harm your child, but how many times do we hear in the news about vulnerable people who have been manipulated into doing awful things by others? And how on earth do you stop her taking photos if she wants to? Do you frisk her for phones when she comes in? Or take your child to the loo with you? Or spend the time she’s there not taking your eyes off her for a second in case she snaps a photo while she pretends to be scrolling? And not for any nefarious purposes. I’m sure, in her mind, it would be because she’s proud of her DN and wants to show photos of how cute she is. But where does that leave you?

I would not knowingly be friends with a sex offender. I would not knowingly have anyone in my life who associates with a sex offender, whether it be a friend or family member.

You are absolutely spot on. I'm horrified by the number of people saying they would allow contact with some 'ground rules', completely overlooking the fact that the Sister is happy to accuse children of lying about being abused. I don't care how vulnerable she is, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near someone like that let alone have them around my children!

ClonedSquare · 13/07/2024 15:04

@MILLYmo0se I'm not sure you meant to quote me. I haven't read any of your comments so not sure why you're saying "I can't be any clearer" or think that I have an opinion on whether you're a shit mum?

itistooeasy · 13/07/2024 15:07

Catza · 13/07/2024 14:52

I would still see my sister with my child providing the phones remained in pockets so no opportunity to make photos. OP already doesn't allow unsupervised time together so I don't see why this rule can't be enforced.
I would not be comfortable to have the man in my house or in the presence of my children. In that case, the sister would be given a choice of a quick catch up at Christmas with just her, if she was dead set on spending the rest of time with him. This is a purely hypothetical scenario because he is in prison and we don't actually know anything about the nature of their relationship to even suggest there will be family celebrations down the line.
Neither of these options necessitates cutting the sister off, as you'll notice. Does it answer your question fully?

Edited
Show quote history

do you have children?

Whothefuckdoesthat · 13/07/2024 15:08

HumanLeague · 13/07/2024 14:40

Did you actually read the post I quoted and responded to at the top of that post?

That said "if the sister is being groomed, i'd be worried she's already sent him a photo (of OPs DC) or given one during a visit, it doesn't have to be an explicit one"

So yeah, some people do 'fucking' think they're sent through the mail or handed over during visits.

I was reassuring those people it's not that easy to get contraband in prison though it happens.

And i think you have really 'fucking' poor comprehension skills and know likely 'fuck all' about what is going on.

Like I said, illegal phones, sim cards etc are 'fucking' rife in prison but it requires someone taking them in. Which would require the OPs Dsis risking a conviction and prison term smuggling him in contraband which are images of children.

When what we're talking about here is an OP who has a Dsis who is in contact with an old friend in prison who is a convicted paedophile.

And OP has always taken care to safeguard her DC and now will take more safeguarding measures.

And there is no 'fucking' suggestion whatsoever that OPs Dsis is a paedophile, a paedophile sympathiser, complicit in paedophilia or committing criminal offences smuggling in contraband into prison. Or planning to be in a romantic or sexual relationship with this man after his release and provide him with sexual abuse victims.

So posters need to chill the 'fuck' out with the paedophile hysteria which they somehow think has infected OPs Dsis and by association is a current and future risk to DC. Based on nothing.

There's zero evidence she's doing anything than having monitored calls and visits with an old friend that is in prison and going to be for at least another year or two.

Show quote history

I can see my swearing has really bothered you. I would apologise but I’m not sorry.

Yes, I did read the post you quoted. That poster referred to ‘sending’ a photo. I can see that nuance is lost on you, so my point was that nobody has to rely on Royal Mail or smuggling contraband anywhere in order to send a photograph to someone in prison. I can explain that for you again, if you need me to?

And there is no 'fucking' suggestion whatsoever that OPs Dsis is a paedophile, a paedophile sympathiser, complicit in paedophilia or committing criminal offences smuggling in contraband into prison. Or planning to be in a romantic or sexual relationship with this man after his release and provide him with sexual abuse victims I completely agree with you. There is, however, evidence that she’s got various difficulties that mean she’s unable to identify if or when she’s being groomed, as well as a history of lying and manipulation. Being a trusted adult in a child’s life means being able to use your judgement to identify situations where a child isn’t safe. The sister isn’t currently able to use her judgement to assess that people don’t tend to go to prison without a good reason.

Maddy70 · 13/07/2024 15:08

MyMomLovedViolets · 13/07/2024 11:44

Considering her vulnerabilities can you sit her down and explain that unless there was very concrete evidence there wouldn't have been a conviction? That 99% of sex crimes go unpunished due to lack of evidence so for him to get a prison sentence there's absolutely no way he didn't do it.

Explain there was photo evidence that he's done it if he's been contacted of creating abuse images?

And explain to her that if she continues to be in contact with him you can no longer see her as its not safe for your family?

This is exactly what i would do

She knows her friend well and wants to believe him you need to explain gently but clearly to her

Cremeroulety · 13/07/2024 15:10

twistyizzy · 13/07/2024 14:59

Exactly. So many incredibly naive comments on here

Show quote history

The level of wilful ignorance naivety on this thread is actually quite frightening especially as many if not most of them are parents. But children aren’t protected enough in society at large so sadly this isn’t surprising.

Whothefuckdoesthat · 13/07/2024 15:11

MILLYmo0se · 13/07/2024 14:59

I dont know how to explain it anymore clearly, I in these circumstances would be OK with my sister and my child being at a family event together and my child would not be out of my sight - bar the 90 seconds it would take me to pee and then they d be with their dad, if he couldn't go I wouldn't attend the event either as it would be too difficult to manage I think. Its pretty simple really, I'm in no way going to be bending over backwards to accommodate a situation where she's with my child regardless of who I offend or upset. Equally in the given circumstances I would not cut my sister off immediately.
You have different boundaries, that's fine, we disagree I guess, you think I'd be a shit mum to take this route and I don't, I dont know what else to tell you really

Show quote history

I think you’ve quoted @ClonedSquare instead of me. Easy enough to do when so many posters are having individual conversations.

I think your last sentence sums up how both of us feel.

itistooeasy · 13/07/2024 15:11

Catza · 13/07/2024 14:52

I would still see my sister with my child providing the phones remained in pockets so no opportunity to make photos. OP already doesn't allow unsupervised time together so I don't see why this rule can't be enforced.
I would not be comfortable to have the man in my house or in the presence of my children. In that case, the sister would be given a choice of a quick catch up at Christmas with just her, if she was dead set on spending the rest of time with him. This is a purely hypothetical scenario because he is in prison and we don't actually know anything about the nature of their relationship to even suggest there will be family celebrations down the line.
Neither of these options necessitates cutting the sister off, as you'll notice. Does it answer your question fully?

Edited
Show quote history

ah i see

and not least bit surprised

you do not have children

perhaps it would be interesting for you to consider this issue again if you ever do

dapsnotplimsolls · 13/07/2024 15:11

Discuss the evidence with her and see what she says. Make sure she's never alone with your daughter and never takes pictures of her.

MissUltraViolet · 13/07/2024 15:12

Perhaps the damage is already done in regards to her being able to have a relationship with your DD. Will you ever be able to trust her? she may end up telling you that she has cut contact with him but how will you ever be sure? (especially as you have mentioned previous manipulative and bad behaviour from her end.)

I can see a world where you could continue to see her if you wanted to but I honestly don't see how allowing your child to continue seeing her (even with supervision) wouldn't still be putting her at risk. Even 10 years down the line, if she spots auntie when walking home from school or the park then why wouldn't she go running to her...what if auntie is with Dave.

Your sister needs to be a stranger to your daughter, what you do in regards to your relationship with her is, IMO, seperate.

Also - there are a lot of mobile phones in prisons, some of you are very naive.

ClockworkDisaster · 13/07/2024 15:12

Either way you are going to have to have your parents, your daughters Dad and other caregivers on side who know to either not let your sister be alone with your daughter or if you decide to cut contact, that she isn’t allowed to see your daughter at all.

tahinitoast · 13/07/2024 15:13

I'm not sure cutting off an already vulnerable relative who you think is in the clutches of a dangerous man is the right thing to do. Whilst ensuring she has no contact with your daughter without you present, and of course no contact between your daughter and the male in question, I would seek requests under both Claire and Sarah's Law. You could also ask your local authority social services to do a risk assessment if you feel your sister is at risk from this man.

MrsSunshine2b · 13/07/2024 15:14

I wouldn't cut her off completely, but I'd never leave her unsupervised with my child (even if I was just in a different room) and I'd never under any circumstances be around him, with or without my child.

wastingtimeonhere · 13/07/2024 15:15

I would meet her for coffee, but she would not see my child again. It would always be on my own. If she asks, she would be told why and articles shown. Also, make sure family members know about Dave so they don't allow her access to any children through friends/ family.

WearyAuldWumman · 13/07/2024 15:17

MrsSunshine2b · 13/07/2024 15:14

I wouldn't cut her off completely, but I'd never leave her unsupervised with my child (even if I was just in a different room) and I'd never under any circumstances be around him, with or without my child.

The problem, as others have said, is that there are umpteen mobile phones in prison.

If the sister has posted anything at all on social media concerning OP's children, he's already seen it - as have any other paedophiles he's in contact with. It doesn't matter how innocent the posts are.

Byjimminy · 13/07/2024 15:18

I would think very little or no contact between your sister and your dc is the only way forward. Maybe, only maybe, at times when there are more than one adult around to give constant supervision for very short periods (your mum or dc's father present too etc) could she have contact with your dc, so they are never unsupervised and not regular enough for a relationship to build. Given your dsis vulnerabilities I think you should stay in contact with her, but in a very different way and you need to be clear that this is the way it has to be. While she is vulnerable to contact with this man, she cannot see your dc.

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this, it must be really stressful and upsetting. I would certainly follow the advice to report everything you know to a safeguarding team regarding your sister's vulnerabilities. She is either in danger of, or is definitely being groomed and there also needs an assessment of risk to any other child she may have contact with.