Sister is in contact with convicted paedophile - what to do??

[jasmine465]

I'm absolutely reeling after a discussion with my sister last night.

Background is, my sister in her late 20's, lives independently but could be considered vulnerable, she has a plethora of mental health problems and a history of being manipulated by people, as well as being the manipulator herself in certain situations. We have been on and off not in contact over the last decade, always instigated by me due to poor behaviour on her part, but have been in regular contact, meeting up etc since the birth of my daughter 18 months ago. She absolutely dotes on my daughter, and while I would never leave her in sole charge of her, I have been happily leaving them playing downstairs for example while I get on with housework.

My sister has a male friend (we shall call him Dave) who she met in primary school and they have been friends for years. He's always been a support to her during her mental health struggles and he is probably her closest, oldest friend.

We met up for a family event last night, and she had a phone all and disappeared for about 45 minutes talking on the phone. When she got back I asked who it was and she told me it was Dave. I asked after him and she told me something about him having moved away for work. I said I was sorry to hear that as I knew they'd been close, and the conversation moved on.

Much later in the evening, we were chatting about plans and I asked if she had plans to go and meet Dave in his new city and when she last saw him etc. She then disclosed that he hadn't moved away at all and he was actually in prison. She said he had been 'accused of being a paedo, but it was all lies'.

I googled his name, and an article came up from when he was sentenced, which was over a year ago - he was convicted of sexual assault of a child, forcing a child to commit sexual acts and making indecent photos of children. It was two little girls he abused and he is currently serving a 5 year prison sentence and will be on the sex offenders register for life.

Obviously, these crimes are abhorrent and are a HUGE deal. Talking to my sister, she claims she knows the mother of the children and she has made it all up, he didn't do it and was advised to plead guilty. She seems to genuinely believe he has been fitted up and is innocent. She said she has been in regular contact with him, receiving phone calls from prison and has visited him on several occasions with his parents.

My first instinct was to cut her off completely and never allow her near my family again as she is knowingly in touch with a convicted paedophile, who I'm sure she will meet up with in person when he's released, given she's visited him in prison. Now having slept on it, I'm not sure if, given her vulnerabilities, I should attempt to reason with her and get her to see that he must be guilty? The news article lays out what evidence the police found in order to convict him - there is no way someone has been able to fabricate this. Having said that, I also know if I did this and gave her an ultimatum about her being in contact with him, there is a reasonable chance she would just carry on in secret and lie to me about it. She has form for doing this.

I'd really appreciate some insights into this and any advice on what to do going forward. I'm absolutely disgusted about the whole situation.

Hi op,

In a not too dissimilar position except it was my "D"B who was the convicted sex offender.

He was sentenced to 4 years, was out in 2 so expect her friend to only serve half his sentance. Once out he will be on probation and have to live by certain rules.... one being not to be left alone with children etc.

While he is "safely" locked up I would try and put it to the back of your mind. You have atleast 2.5 years of him being locked away. And I think you will just need to see how your sister behaves once he is out. A lot can happen in 2.5 years.

From what I gather it's quite "normal" for people to support an offender. Especially someone they are close with. It's almost like they are in denial that they could be so wrong about someone or that this person they love can do such horrid things.

I have no contact with brother now, but my parents do. They don't think he is innocent by any means but have not been able to cut him off. Thankfully they fully support me having nothing to do with him. DD, 8 remembers him as he fun uncle so doesn't understand why we don't see him, that will be a horrid conversation for when she's older.

But @spiderplant56 the risk here is that by brushing it away for 2-4yrs (whenever he's released) her daughter goes from being 18months to 4-6yr old and capable of remembering the auntie, asking questions why she's no longer seeing her etc. Why build a relationship that isn't in the best interest of her daughter? Or one you plan to break off in few years time? And will sister even be honest about where Dave is, when she sees him etc?

In your case I would hope the decision to cut off was straightforward (although extremely painful, I'm sure). So the severance of that uncle relationship happened as a natural consquence of his actions. This relationship could continue, and build a foundation that could put the OP's child at risk - a doorway for Dave to groom sister and OP's child. Would you keep touch with your DB's wife/girlfriend that stood by him (if he had one, or imagining that scenario)?

Yes I do agree a lot can happen in 2yr, but also OP can reconnect to her sister if sister cuts ties, admits Dave is an abuser etc.

You can't stop a paedophile from wandering around.

I gave some info upthread about coming into contact with one via a relative. I told my close family members that if they allowed him anywhere near their homes, I'd have to cut contact forever. (They listened to me.)

Cut to several years later.

I was at a family funeral. I still can't get my head round this.

We'd had the church service and had moved on to the cemetery. We were gathered round the grave. I became aware of two people sitting on a bench observing.

One was the paedophile. The other was one of the children (now an adult) that I'd flagged up to the authorities as being in danger.

That's the last time I saw him. No one spoke to him. I don't know why he was there. The person being buried was a relative of the relative who had been his friend - not someone close to him.

Through the later newspaper coverage, I now realise that the adult with him was one of his last victims and was under coercive control.

ETA To this day, I don't understand why he went to the funeral. He would have seen the funeral notice in the local paper. He wasn't part of the crowd, but there's no way that he was there by coincidence - the graveyard is outside the town.

I really think people are confusing "friend" and "partner" here. It's likely only because they've been friends from childhood that the OP even knows of Dave's existence. Beyond a couple of familiar names from childhood I certainly don't know my siblings friends. Statistically it's likely that at least someone I know has a friend who is a sex offender (whether they know or not).

If your child has a playdate at their friend's house, you have no idea whether the parents have friends or family who are sex offenders.

It's impossible to vet those our kids have contact with, to widen that to contracts of those people is unrealistic in the extreme.

Honestly it's probably better we don't know or we'd be absolutely terrified.

I have a former friend (not cut off for this reason) who I'd have playdates with. I wouldn't have left my kids with her a she was a bit odd, but i certainly popped to the loo etc. Later I found her husband was being prosecuted for child abuse.

The issue here is the sisters vulnerability, and so it's important to be sensible in not allowing her around her sisters first unsupervised etc, but that doesn't happen anyway.

How is any of that relevant? @Babyboomtastic

It doesn’t matter that you don’t know your siblings friends. I do know some of my siblings friends but that’s actually irrelevant too.

The fact is we are talking about OPs situation, and she clearly does know at least one of her siblings friends. This paedophile friend of her sisters has been at their family party where there were young children. If they all live local it’s certainly not a stretch to imagine a future scenario where OPs daughter (once she’s older) bumps into her trusted Aunty with her friend Dave.

I’m certainly not confusing friend for partner, but the fact is it is a close and long standing friendship which means something. Many times romantic partners can come and go while childhood friendships like this endure, so in a sense - due to the platonic nature of their relationship it’s even easier more likely he will be around in the long term.

You can’t do anything about a friend or sibling or your children’s friends parents etc who is mates with a sex offender, if you don’t know about it. Simple. But OP does know about it in the case of her sister’s friend , so again that’s irrelevant.

Or are you saying we should just ignore known risks because there are unknown risks we are unwittingly exposed to?

and had you had known the husband was a cretin

you would not have gone to the house and certainly not left the children alone

so i fail to see your point

@Babyboomtastic but you did not know he was being prosecuted for child abuse though. If you had and you still socialised with them then you would have been putting your child in unnecessary danger.

We all do things that could put our children in a dangerous situation every day but most of us try to do our best to minimise risks by doing things like using car seats and testing the temperature of the bath water.

This was before he was sentenced, so no I didn't immediately think it relevant to the situation specifically concerning my sister. I barely socialised with him there at the time, and he wasn't alone with any children, he just sat at the back of the garden with my sister. It was only after discussing the whole sordid situation with my husband that we realised she might have known at the time she invited him what he had been accused of (and later convicted of).

If my sister knew what he had done at that time and still chose to invite him to a party when she knew children would be present, that absolutely affects how I will choose to proceed.

Am I allowed to share the news article concerned which details his sentencing?

It’s certainly possible (and I’d have thought very likely) that he’d been arrested and charged by then. Criminal proceedings tend to take a long time, especially where sex offences are involved. I used to work at the CPS and I don’t ever remember a case of that nature concluding as quickly as that.

Of course, that doesn’t mean your sister necessarily knew that. He might not have told her and I doubt she’d admit it to you even if he did, so I guess you’ll never really know.

If he wasn’t charged until after that, and he’d already been sentenced and jailed seven months later, that would be unusually quick. Especially if he entered a plea of not guilty, as that typically means the whole process takes longer.

And if he pleaded guilty, obviously that puts a completely different spin on your sister’s claims that she thinks it was all lies.

what has your sister done in the past that has made you go NC? Multiple timers

@jasmine465 I'd probably not post the link because the Daily Mail loves to pick up news stories from here.

A Google of sex offender Dave sentenced March 2023 gives (disgustingly) more than 1. So people following along can, unfortunately, take their pick.

Any of them are horrible shits and you're in your right to decide how to handle this info as best you can for your family.

If my sister knew what he had done at that timeand still chose to invite him to a party when she knew children would be present, that absolutely affects how I will choose to proceed.**

the very fact that you can’t be sure she didn’t, would mean i would want nothing more to do with her

A further update.

I've spoken to my sister over text today, keeping everything very friendly so she'll keep replying.

She flatly denies knowing anything about the accusations until after he came to the family party.

I asked if she genuinely believes he is innocent?

She said the following -

"Not fully. I know most of the story now and I am aware of who ratted him out and do you know what? I knew she was trouble as she’d said nearly every one of her ex partners had done something to her kids including their own dad. So I don’t think he’s done all the paper has made him out to do because I don’t believe [Dave] is capable of everything the paper had made out. I think this time I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and I’m on his dads side who has said if he goes back into prison then he’ll be disowned and I’m the same I won’t be in contact with him if he does it again. I protected you because of [my daughter] and [Dave] is aware he won’t be meeting her until at least I am comfortable with how he behaves and how he is around other people. I’m going to protect you and [my daughter] as long as I bloody well can!!"

I've obviously taken out my daughter's name and changed his to Dave.

So it seems she doesn't really believe he is innocent after all. She also goes on to acknowledge that he did take at least one photo of the children (it seems he was only convicted one one count of making an indecent image, yet I strongly suspect there was more than this).

I'm also speechless that she seems to think that it is up to her to 'allow' him near my daughter. The narrative has changed from her original statement that she would "never allow it". She clearly lacks boundaries on what is acceptable behaviour and totally lacks insight on the whole situation.

All this info has cemented the decision to fully remove her from both myself and my child's life. My parents are helpfully on board with this. I will also be explaining to her very clearly why this is the case.

To give slightly more info (I hope this doesn't count as a drip feed?) the offending seems to specifically link to a nappy fetish. It states he was found to have downloaded images of children wearing nappies. I'm sure my sister has photos of my daughter wearing a nappy which were at the time taken totally innocently. If I report this to the police is there any way I can force these to be deleted from her devices?

She is currently lodging in a house where her landlady is a secondary school teacher. I will be making her aware of my sister's contact with Dave as well.

Can anyone think of any other safeguarding measures I should undertake? Thanks

As she's your sister and vulnerable I wouldn't cut her of completely. It wouldn't ever see her with my daughter around though.

Sorry I wrote that before I saw your last message. With that attitude I actually would cut contact. It's the whole "it's not that bad" minimisation. I couldn't be around it.

So sorry!

Your recent info made it very easy to find. It sounds like he might only serve half his time from the article? If that's true, you'll want to start those boundaries sooner than later I'm afraid.

It's so specific, I can't believe she has any doubt at all. She is too open minded to him demonstrating good behaviour.

There's a quote from one of the mothers about how it made her feel like a useless parents. That won't be you because you are armed with this knowledge. I'm so sorry though.

I agree with your decision @jasmine465

Glad to hear you're cutting her out and that your parents support this. As for Dave - a nappy fetish on top of everything else, what an absolutely vile oxygen thief he is.

oh boy, that text does make it sound like she over estimates her own judgement.

"Ratted him out" is such a telling phrase. Like reporting crime is wrong. She's also very keen to blame the children's mother and make out she's a fantasist rather than believe that there are indeed far too many paedophiles around.

Are you friends with many convicted paedophiles?

I’ve found the article too, “Dave” even “explains” the reasons for his sick actions in detail, so yes it’s evident your sister is fully aware he isn’t innocent and didn’t just plead guilty due to legal advice. There is no way he can say he was innocent after admitting to it in such detail.

I'm also speechless that she seems to think that it is up to her to 'allow' him near my daughter. The narrative has changed from her original statement that she would "never allow it". She clearly lacks boundaries on what is acceptable behaviour and totally lacks insight on the whole situation.

Exactly, that’s so bizarre and shows her extremely poor judgement and lack of integrity. She’s clearly not a safe or trustworthy adult for your daughter to build a relationship with. The whole text is just gross ugh - blaming the victims parents for “ratting” him out!! She's acting as if someone reported her mate for some kind of petty/victimless crime and not child abuse.

If it is true that the child’s mother says she has been abused by other men previously , I wonder if Dave targeted her for this reason? Was he dating one of the mothers?
Children who have been abused once are at greater risk of being abused again for various reasons.

Anyone who still thinks after reading this update that because your sister is vulnerable herself it’s ok to let her have access to your (even more vulnerable) child is completely clueless.

Not read the full thread cos it made mensick but cut her off completely and make sure your family are never alone with your daughter either incase they think it's okay to leave her with auntie etc, unless you're absolutely certain they would never do this. Your sister is a fucking idiot and deserves to be cut off.

Have a look at OP's latest update - she is cutting sister off after what she's most recently said.

Can anyone think of any other safeguarding measures I should undertake? Thanks

What you’re planning to do sounds sensible - cutting her off, making her landlord aware and reporting to police - hopefully they can delete the photos. It’s such a shame you (rightly) don’t trust your own sister with them.

I think you mentioned she had a social worker earlier? If so, see if you can contact them. Call social services saying you have some concerns/info about your sister and they can pass it on to relevant social worker.