Sister is in contact with convicted paedophile - what to do??

[jasmine465]

I'm absolutely reeling after a discussion with my sister last night.

Background is, my sister in her late 20's, lives independently but could be considered vulnerable, she has a plethora of mental health problems and a history of being manipulated by people, as well as being the manipulator herself in certain situations. We have been on and off not in contact over the last decade, always instigated by me due to poor behaviour on her part, but have been in regular contact, meeting up etc since the birth of my daughter 18 months ago. She absolutely dotes on my daughter, and while I would never leave her in sole charge of her, I have been happily leaving them playing downstairs for example while I get on with housework.

My sister has a male friend (we shall call him Dave) who she met in primary school and they have been friends for years. He's always been a support to her during her mental health struggles and he is probably her closest, oldest friend.

We met up for a family event last night, and she had a phone all and disappeared for about 45 minutes talking on the phone. When she got back I asked who it was and she told me it was Dave. I asked after him and she told me something about him having moved away for work. I said I was sorry to hear that as I knew they'd been close, and the conversation moved on.

Much later in the evening, we were chatting about plans and I asked if she had plans to go and meet Dave in his new city and when she last saw him etc. She then disclosed that he hadn't moved away at all and he was actually in prison. She said he had been 'accused of being a paedo, but it was all lies'.

I googled his name, and an article came up from when he was sentenced, which was over a year ago - he was convicted of sexual assault of a child, forcing a child to commit sexual acts and making indecent photos of children. It was two little girls he abused and he is currently serving a 5 year prison sentence and will be on the sex offenders register for life.

Obviously, these crimes are abhorrent and are a HUGE deal. Talking to my sister, she claims she knows the mother of the children and she has made it all up, he didn't do it and was advised to plead guilty. She seems to genuinely believe he has been fitted up and is innocent. She said she has been in regular contact with him, receiving phone calls from prison and has visited him on several occasions with his parents.

My first instinct was to cut her off completely and never allow her near my family again as she is knowingly in touch with a convicted paedophile, who I'm sure she will meet up with in person when he's released, given she's visited him in prison. Now having slept on it, I'm not sure if, given her vulnerabilities, I should attempt to reason with her and get her to see that he must be guilty? The news article lays out what evidence the police found in order to convict him - there is no way someone has been able to fabricate this. Having said that, I also know if I did this and gave her an ultimatum about her being in contact with him, there is a reasonable chance she would just carry on in secret and lie to me about it. She has form for doing this.

I'd really appreciate some insights into this and any advice on what to do going forward. I'm absolutely disgusted about the whole situation.

The DC is safe.

OPs sister is in contact with a man she's known since primary school so possibly 20 years as they're in their late 20s and OP describes him as having been Dsis closest and oldest friend who has helped her with her MH problems over the years whereas OP has been in and out of contact for years.

Dsis trusts him. He's her oldest friend who has helped her in tough times and she seems to believe he is innocent and she is now helping him through times. As close and old friends do.

OP has said she already wouldn't leave her DC in sole care with Dsis and now wouldn't leave her unsupervised with DC.

Ops query wasn't about safeguarding her DC, she already has that in hand. Her query was about cutting off her sister because she is knowingly in contact with a convicted paedophile. Not - i'm worried about my DC or how do I protect my DC or i'm expected to socialise with this man or have him be my friend.

She was asking if she should cut off her Dsis due to who she is friends with. While acknowledging her sister is vulnerable, has MH issues, is easily manipulated and believes this man is innocent.

And I don't think that she should. And I think that's potentially risky for Dsis. That's not the OPs responsibilty to keep her safe but if it was my sister I wouldn't take that course of action.

Yeah and my thought was if he is grooming the sister then she could have already sent a photo to him or took one to a visit. Doesn't have to be an explicit photo 😞

I wouldn’t waste your time trying to convince her of his guilt she has decided to listen to rumour. He has been convicted and will never be welcome anywhere near your family. She has to know it is him or you unfortunately. What if they have a child. If she is vulnerable could social services be notified. It must be so hard for you .

He’s in prison now- he’s serving 5 year sentence, which means 2.5 years at most before he’s out - so our before the OPs dd starts school. Sadly, as the sisters judgement can’t be trusted and is friends with at least one child abuser, she can’t be someone the OPs DD believes is a safe grown up.

the Aunt has to be a stranger to the DD. The OPs mum also needs to understand if she’s got DD without the OP there, sister isn’t allowed in the house.

I think just make sure she doesn’t have a relationship with your child but you don’t have to
cut her off if you are worried about her. If she won’t believe he’s guilty and chooses to
continue the friendship with him, ultimately you’ve tried and cannot change her mind.

He wouldn’t go to prison for someone making this up. For indecent image offences there has to be very solid irrefutable evidence for a conviction, likely they’ve seized his devices and found them on there.

The police will not disclose anything to your sister about his conviction or offending as she doesn’t have children. This is a Sarah’s Law type request, and telling her doesn’t fit the criteria.

If she has been friends with him since primary I wouldn’t say he is grooming her as such. Yes absolutely right these types of offenders lie and manipulate to get access children, usually by starting a relationship with someone with children, but you sound like you wouldn’t allow that contact/potential contact with your child so can continue to safeguard them.

You can let her social worker know you are concerned about the friendship and they might have a chat with her to make sure nothing else is going on, but as they have been friends for years since before his offending was known, I’m not sure what else they can do.

Only you know if you can continue a relationship with your sister once he is released if she chooses to remain in contact with him, but either way I’d stop the contact between her and your child.

Your sister sounds vulnerable and trying to reason with her sounds like a better approach than cutting her off. She's likely to need you in the future too.
But under no circumstances leave your DD alone with her, there have been cases of women being coerced into taking inappropriate photos of children for their boyfriends

I’m stunned by the sheer naivety of some of you. Have you not seen the lifelong damage that csa can do? Thinking that he can’t get a mobile phone or access FB because he’s in prison and it’s illegal? 🤦‍♀️ Or thinking that the child is fine because the sister is never left alone with her. Well she is left alone with her. The OP says she’s been happily leaving them downstairs playing while she gets on with housework. And in what universe is it desirable for your child to have a relationship with someone you would not trust to be alone in the same room as? If you cannot trust them not to do something harmful in the 90 seconds it takes you to go for a wee, what the fuck are you doing letting them within a million miles of your child? Would you really risk your own child’s safety that way? And it’s not as simple as saying that the danger is tucked away in a prison cell. What happens if the OP lets the sister keep seeing her DD? She’s said her sister lies and manipulates. What if she convinces everyone that she’s cut Dave off, when she hasn’t? Dave is going to be out in 2.5 years. What if he wants to see the child he’s heard so much about? You think they couldn’t manipulate a situation where that could happen? Or when the child is old enough to play in the park with her friends and her trusted aunt approaches her with her friend to say hello?

So he picked her out as a friend in primary school because of the fact she might have nieces 20 yrs down the line he could get access to?! No of course not. But has he maintained that friendship over the years because she’s easy to manipulate? Because she’s got issues that mean he can convince her of his innocence? Because he can rely on her friendship when he’s released and nobody else wants anything to do with him? Quite possibly.

Just adding to my post re photos Absolutely no more they could end up anywhere. I am not allowed to post any pics of my granddaughters on Facebook etc and I wouldn’t anyway this is a sad world

Yes the child has been left alone in a room with the aunt because mum didn't know about the paedophile in her life, she now does so obviously that has stopped. She isn't asking how to protect her child as such, she's asking is it possible to protect her own family without entirely abandoning her vulnerable sister. I think it is, with clear strict boundaries and there v clear messege that it would take v little for that relationship to implode and end completely should any of those boundaries even look like they are going to be crossed as her loyalty and prime concern with be with her own children above everyone else. Her sister is free to make her choices and decisions as to how she feels about those boundaries, but in the full knowledge she will be cut out of OP s life without hesitation as a result of those if necessary.

The op understands all of this and by her posts the Dd won't be in contact with the aunt.

Lets not be hysterical.

He's in prison.

And OP said even before knowing all this, she never left her DC in sole care of her Dsis anyway but would leave the room.

And now she knows about it she won't ever leave the room.

Her sister was never going to be given a password for nursery or school pick-up. Let alone Dave being given a password by Dsis.

And nursey workers absolutely are suspicious of an unknown man turning up to collect a child when the parent or guardian hasn't alerted them to it so can and do, refuse to release the child.

cutting of contact with your sister who is vulnerable with learning g difficulties because she has been duped due to said difficulties is cruel. Nobody would logically do that what is wrong with you?

Of course it's logical.

They have been in sporadic contact for a decade, so hardly close.

Ops sister has been known to be manipulative.

Ops sister has a support worker and parents who can look after her.

Ops main priority is her daughter, and whether this paedophile sympathiser should be known as a safe person in her life.

Even if op can keep her dd away from the sister just now, there will be a time in future where she can't if they have a relationship.

There are 2 vulnerable people here, one with parents of her own to watch out for her, and one one who is a baby who has her parents to watch out for her.

The most logical thing is for op to protect her own child, and give her parents the information so they can protect their child.

He's a convicted offender in prison. All of his mail, calls and visits are supervised or monitored. As a convicted child sex offender he's not receiving any pictures of DC that haven't been approved by the parent or guardian and checked out.

If he has an illegal 'phone that can receive images, he and the Dsis are committing criminal offences but there's currently no evidence that is the case.

On visits, visitors aren't allowed to take in 'phones or other devices and nothing can be given to the prisoner. Clothes, photos etc have to be sent through prison mail.

Visitors and inmates are searched before and after.

In some prisons, visitors are allowed to take in coin money to use to buy refreshments in the visitor area but that's it. Some prisons don't even allow that.

Of course we know visitors take in contraband and that can't be stopped completely but it would require Dsis and Daves parents to be knowingly committing criminal offences secreting SIM cards about their person to surreptitiously hand over during a visit that the inmate will have to find a way to hide, up their arse usually.

Which is possible and happens, but i'm responding to the posters who seem to think photos of non-related children are just handed over during a visit or sent via prison mail to convicted child sexual offenders.

Of course not. She says no photos, not round her house. It's fair to assume she doesn't mean "but obviously I'd take my daughter round to my sister's house if he was there"

My first instinct would be to cut sister off for having any contact with a convicted paedophile and believing he is innocent. I think it is a difficult one due to her learning difficulties as it’s not her fault she sees the situation differently or is more trusting of him. But she needs to know that what she’s doing isn’t OK regardless of anything and she will lose friends and family over it.

Honestly if Dave has a mobile in prison I’d try to get the number from her phone and report it to the prison. I’d also try to get in contact with social services or her social worker somehow and just explain. It’s not your problem to get involved in but your sister is vulnerable and paedophiles are the scum of the earth, she deserves what little support/protection she can get and he deserves to rot on his own

I think, bearing in mind Dsis's vulnerabilites, I would probably not stop seeing her but would do what I could to protect her. If she's vulnerable then she's also vulnerable to the manipulations of predatory men.

Would she would not be doing under any pretext is having any contact whatsoever with my daughter, supervised or otherwise. This is not borne out of any desire to 'punish' the sister, but for the straightforward reason of child safeguarding and protection.

OP, whatever you decide respecting your sister you would be wise to keep your daughter well away. The possible consequences of not doing so are simply not worth the risk to your child.

please bother to read the post to which i was referring

Always amazes me how many women stay with paedophiles.

he was convicted of sexual assault of a child, forcing a child to commit sexual acts and making indecent photos of children. It was two little girls he abused and he is currently serving a 5 year prison sentence and will be on the sex offenders register for life.

I seriously hate this country sometimes. After all this, he only got a five-year sentence? Pathetic.

@MILLYmo0se

She isn't asking how to protect her child as such, she's asking is it possible to protect her own family without entirely abandoning her vulnerable sister Yes, I can see what she’s asking, thanks. I don’t struggle with comprehension.

I think it is, with clear strict boundaries and there v clear messege that it would take v little for that relationship to implode and end completely should any of those boundaries even look like they are going to be crossed I think you’re so, so wrong, and really naive to think it’s possible. The OP says that her sister has a history of bad behaviour, lying and manipulation which has caused her to cut contact previously. How the fuck do you maintain boundaries with someone who doesn’t think that there’s even an issue in the first place, and who isn’t above lying and manipulating to get people to do what she wants? Do you think the sister is going to be completely honest with the OP? Boundaries aren’t crossed until they are, and by then it’s too late. Would you risk your child’s safety in the hope that a proven liar is telling you the truth this time?

Yes the child has been left alone in a room with the aunt because mum didn't know about the paedophile in her life, she now does so obviously that has stopped You’ve very skillfully picked out a couple of points there without actually answering the question I asked. If you cannot leave your child alone in a room with someone for the 90 seconds it takes to do a wee, what are you doing letting them within a million miles of your child?

@DragonFly98 cutting of contact with your sister who is vulnerable with learning g difficulties because she has been duped due to said difficulties is cruel. Nobody would logically do that what is wrong with you? Read the original post, where the OP has described how her sister’s behaviour has forced her to do that on more than one occasion. Are you reading and thinking that the sister is some poor innocent little lamb who has never done anything wrong and who has been led astray by a monster? Because she might be vulnerable, but I don’t think that’s the case here, otherwise why would OP have cut contact previously, but be unsure whether to cut it now over this?

I wouldn't risk my daughter building a close relationship with the sister in this case. It's short sighted to say it's fine as long as daughter isn't alone with sister. That works when she's a small child and can't have her own wants.

But if the daughter ends up close with the sister, what happens when she's 8 and her auntie suggests sleepovers or girls' shopping trips without mum? Or even if she doesn't suggest them but OP's daughter does because her friends do that with their aunts and uncles? Yes, OP can continue to say no but it has the cope to cause a lot of drama if OP's daughter can't understand the issue and thinks mum's just being mean (and auntie possibly feeds this by maintaining Dave isn't a problem etc).

I wouldn’t be haste as you have 5 years to make her see sense. Given her vulnerability I would take it slowly to get her to see how things really are.

She needs to come to terms with losing and important friend. It sounds like her vulnerability would have made it difficult to make friends in the past. I wouldn’t cut her off now, but if she doesn’t see sense eventually, you may have to.

Cut her off.

A relative kept up a friendship with a convicted paedophile. The guy had "been drunk" and had "made a mistake". He had served his sentence.

I became aware that he was living with a woman and her children and I reported it - this was 40 years ago. Nothing was done. I cut myself off from the people who were in contact with him.

Nearly 40 years later, I saw the man's photo splashed across various news sites. Convicted of raping children years after the original offence. (Historical offences, but still after the original offence.)

A couple of years after that, he was tried again whilst in prison for more historical offences. From the details in the papers, I'm fairly certain that the victims were the children that I'd referred as a safeguarding concern 40 years ago and that he had kept coercive control over them into adulthood.

He died in prison.

Also I think illegal mobiles in prison are more common than people think. One of my best friends has dated several people who served time during their relationship (yes it’s hard not to judge her sometimes) and they would call or text when they could. Mobiles get borrowed from other inmates. So it only takes one person to smuggle one in once, the person borrowing the phone hasn’t necessarily had to do any of the hard work to get it in. But yes any photos that are officially sent to inmates get inspected before being handed over. They are allowed to be pretty raunchy but not show explicit body parts