Sister is in contact with convicted paedophile - what to do??

[jasmine465]

I'm absolutely reeling after a discussion with my sister last night.

Background is, my sister in her late 20's, lives independently but could be considered vulnerable, she has a plethora of mental health problems and a history of being manipulated by people, as well as being the manipulator herself in certain situations. We have been on and off not in contact over the last decade, always instigated by me due to poor behaviour on her part, but have been in regular contact, meeting up etc since the birth of my daughter 18 months ago. She absolutely dotes on my daughter, and while I would never leave her in sole charge of her, I have been happily leaving them playing downstairs for example while I get on with housework.

My sister has a male friend (we shall call him Dave) who she met in primary school and they have been friends for years. He's always been a support to her during her mental health struggles and he is probably her closest, oldest friend.

We met up for a family event last night, and she had a phone all and disappeared for about 45 minutes talking on the phone. When she got back I asked who it was and she told me it was Dave. I asked after him and she told me something about him having moved away for work. I said I was sorry to hear that as I knew they'd been close, and the conversation moved on.

Much later in the evening, we were chatting about plans and I asked if she had plans to go and meet Dave in his new city and when she last saw him etc. She then disclosed that he hadn't moved away at all and he was actually in prison. She said he had been 'accused of being a paedo, but it was all lies'.

I googled his name, and an article came up from when he was sentenced, which was over a year ago - he was convicted of sexual assault of a child, forcing a child to commit sexual acts and making indecent photos of children. It was two little girls he abused and he is currently serving a 5 year prison sentence and will be on the sex offenders register for life.

Obviously, these crimes are abhorrent and are a HUGE deal. Talking to my sister, she claims she knows the mother of the children and she has made it all up, he didn't do it and was advised to plead guilty. She seems to genuinely believe he has been fitted up and is innocent. She said she has been in regular contact with him, receiving phone calls from prison and has visited him on several occasions with his parents.

My first instinct was to cut her off completely and never allow her near my family again as she is knowingly in touch with a convicted paedophile, who I'm sure she will meet up with in person when he's released, given she's visited him in prison. Now having slept on it, I'm not sure if, given her vulnerabilities, I should attempt to reason with her and get her to see that he must be guilty? The news article lays out what evidence the police found in order to convict him - there is no way someone has been able to fabricate this. Having said that, I also know if I did this and gave her an ultimatum about her being in contact with him, there is a reasonable chance she would just carry on in secret and lie to me about it. She has form for doing this.

I'd really appreciate some insights into this and any advice on what to do going forward. I'm absolutely disgusted about the whole situation.

So the safety of the sister comes before safety of the child?

@PersonallyVictimizedByReginaGeorge unfortunately I don't think it is possible. The very fact OP's sister has been conned by this man to believe he's innocent says she'll never be safe to have near children. She'll always be a conduit for him. Vulnerable or not, the risk, and the potential consequences, are too great.

Thanks everyone for your replies, too many to reply to individually but lots of different viewpoints and valuable advice.

She does have mild learning difficulties so does struggle with critical thinking. She is likely to believe someone she trusts (Dave).

Just to reiterate, there is absolutely no question about my child ever being around Dave. That will quite simply never, ever happen.

I'm still torn between just cutting all contact and trying to reason with her, but in the meantime I'll definitely contact the social services team. I'm going to speak to my mum today about it (she wasn't there last night so doesn't know!) and she might have more info about her case worker or social worker. She obviously won't be having any contact with my daughter in the meantime.

She does take a lot of photos of my daughter, has a selfie of her holding her as her FB profile picture etc and while I never previously saw it as an issue this has definitely made me rethink. I don't think she will have been able to send Dave any pics of her as he's been in prison since before she was born, I doubt that would be allowed?

I'll update once I've spoken to my mum about everything.

Absolutely cut contact. Imagine if you found out she was showing pictures of your DD to him (even innocently in her mind). No, protect your daughter.

I am part in the Cut Her Off camp to protect your child, but also concerned for her welfare.

I think I would firstly try to have a conversation around how she actually views their "relationship" and whether she understands the implications IF she is planning on anything after he is released.

You can, during this conversation, point out that not many people with children - including you - would be willing to consider having him around their children, so this could cause her problems.

There is no immediate rush to cut her off as he is on prison for the time being and by riding it out for a bit you might be able to make her reassess things.

But if she insisted on continuing contact with him then your child comes first.

yes and the sister tells Dave the password because he offers to do pick up and Dave walks off with her. It's actually easier if there's a password because there's no suspicion at all, the staff member isn't looking him up and down and trying to judge if he's legit or not.

Safeguarding team at the council x

So he picked her out as a friend in primary school because of the fact she might have nieces 20 yrs down the line he could get access to?!
Your sister is vulnerable so no I wouldn't cut contact entirely. I would sit her down for a conversation about the court case, the fact that it is v bloody hard to get a conviction even when it is true that the victim has been raped and assaulted so no he isn't an innocent man wrongfully convicted. Now because of her link to this man, her hiding his conviction from you and her continuing friendship with him she will never be left alone with your children even when you are in the same house (do that means you have to present at all times, her with kids while granny or uncle Jim are present doesn't work because you can't guarantee how on the ball they will be re taking photos etc) and nursery and school will be informed in writing that she is never allowed to collect them. You probably wouldn't have put her on the authorised list anyway but naming her as not an allowed person raises the security bar re collection over just not having her on the list iykwim, some services are great with security around collection, others not so much so you need it to be highlighted that she is in fact a risk.
Due to her own vulnerabilities I would still stay in contact by phone, meet for lunch without the kids, see her at family gatherings but all that could end down the line, my children come first. Obviously I would tell all family members about him too

I completely agree. As a single parent, I rarely if ever left my children alone, apart from with a teenage babysitter. But my children would have been old enough to report if a boyfriend had showed up later in the evening.

What we ought to do as parents is always take every safeguarding measure possible. I never plan to ''take a chance!'' or ''hope strangers are trustworthy!''.

Nope, behave as though everybody poses a risk. Obviously even that isn't failsafe, as teachers and so on can still turn out to abuse.

But if we're living in a world where we protect our children and don't leave them alone, then I wonder what is the benefit of cutting off a sister who is associating with a man in prison.

Over four years, I'd expect that bond to dwindle.

I’m afraid I agree with others.

my course of action would be to contact adult social services and ask for the information to be passed to whoever is your sister’s caseworker.

Then you need to cut her out. She can never be in the same room as your DD while she’s in regular contact with “Dave” - or any of Dave’s friends. Even if you are also in the room, your sister shouldn’t be there with your dd and your dd shouldn’t be raised to think her aunt is a safe person.

You don’t mention parents but were at a family event, are your parents still around and do you spend a lot of time with other family members? I think you need to make sure the wider family know why you are cutting sister out of your life so no one else decides to let sister around either your dd or other children in the family.

he may have got a 5 year sentence but he’s likely going to be out in just over 2 years so that’s not long.

There are still some horrible things that can happen with any access to the house though, for example there's apparently a market for used kids underwear 😬

The sister by the sounds of it has no capacity to go and pick up her neice on her own, Dave is In prison he's not going to be anywhere near the nursery or school.

That truth is @jasmine465 you know who he is so you have a heads up. I never knew that anybody in my life was a paedophile or married to a paedophile so I just operated under the assumption that there were going to be predators out there and I didn't know who they were so I never took risks.

Try not to worry too much. You have time to let this revelation settle and to see if your sister will allow you to delete all the photos of your child off her phone.

It's the devil you don't know which is the danger I'd say. That is the brutal reality.

This

Id probably go further and take any phones off her around my child or do not leave them alone even to do housework. Or, only maintain a relationship with your sister away from your dd.

I think I would explain to your sister that you know she believes him and as his friend you are not going to fight her but as a mother you have to think of your child before anyone else so you have to put some boundaries in place for now.

As for would you spend Christmas with him, what a ridiculous comment. Maintaining a relationship with OPs sister dose not have to involve entertaining this man in OPs life.

Also I’m not sure what adult SS would do but I suppose flagging it with them would be sensible especially if she’s to get her self pregnant at some point in the future.

OPs Dsis and 'Dave' have been friends since primary school and they're now in their late 20s. OP describes him as Dsis oldest and closest friend who has helped her a lot with her MH problems over the years whereas OP has been in sporadic contact for a decade.

There is zero evidence or suggestion that OPs vulnerable Dsis is 'of the same ilk' as a paedophile or that she would sexually abuse DC.

This is what I mean when it's risky and unfair to just cut off a vulnerable person because they're in contact with a SO and have assumptions they are just the same or a risk to DC.

No. But he knows now she’s got children in the family and that she’s vulnerable.

Your sister is an apologist for a child rapist. There's no coming back from that.

I don’t know what kind of problems/ diagnoses your sister has, but I have close relatives with mh problems that make them vulnerable particularly in that they are very poor judges of character and have a tendency to believe people even when nobody else does. They are also attracted to drama and negative emotion.
If I was you, I would sit your sister down and very calmly but clearly tell her that there’s basically no way this person is innocent, the reality of what he’s done, that you are concerned for her and that you can’t have your child in contact with someone who is a convicted paedophile (which you really shouldn’t). Be almost factual and unemotional about it and very firm because if she’s anything like my relatives, getting very emotional will only feed into it and make her defiant.
It depends on exactly what you mean when you say vulnerable, and on how old she is, but I don’t think contacting her keyworker or anyone like that will do much good in this
situation. Are your parents around? Are you/ she in contact with them or other family members who could also have a word with her? One of my close family members first boyfriend from when she was very young is currently in prison on very similar charges but she broke contact with him when she found out he had been accused. If she had persisted in having contact with him and continued to do so after I had spoken to her about it, yes I would tell her that she could not be around my family but that if she was in trouble or needed anything (within reason) I would still be there for her. I would call/ text/ check in on her every so often to make sure she is doing okay but until she ends her relationship with “Dave” and you’re satisfied she’s telling the truth, I wouldn’t have her around my kid/s.

A slightly different angle - is convincing her that he is guilty the only way forward here?

I wonder if you might have more luck not arguing about her with that, but focussing on getting her to understand that while there is any risk at all that he is guilty, it essential that you proceed on that basis to safeguard DD. It's not whether she or you believe it or not, you both have to take actions to keep him apart from children and all photos of your children for as long as there is any possibility.

Take the belief out of it and make it about following rules and procedures. Just like teachers have go follow designated safeguarding procedures with children, regardless of their own personal opinions and judgements. Even if they know a child's aunty personally and trust them, they can't just hand the child over to her without a parent's say so. They don't have to believe the aunty intends harm to follow the safeguarding rule - the rules are separate from anyone's personal beliefs of character etc.

Also we tell children it's fine to refuse to go with a stranger, and anyone who means no harm will understand and not be cross or try to insist. Similarly if he is innocent then he will completely understand why these rules have to be followed now that he has the conviction.

Exactly and many posters on here are more concerned about her welfare than the welfare of OPs child!

I hate to say it but I wouldn’t be too sure to dismiss the notion that DSis eventually is used to get some children for Dave. Not that she is technically also inclined towards pedophilia but that she is inclined towards being a good friend to Dave. The more the world turns against him the more she will cling to him, want to rescue him. A lot of heinous crimes against children and young women have been committed by couples with an unhealthy bond. Often, though not always, the weaker half has an issue that makes them vulnerable to manipulation and control by the more malevolent party.

Contact adult social care for the area where she lives and track it through them

That’s not the same thing, is it?

My thoughts exactly and never allow this man to visit you at home or at family functions. So , never have contact with him but don't cut off your sister

I didn’t say her sister was. I said that people like Dave often have friends of the same ilk - I specifically mentioned her child bumping into her sister and a friend because it’s very possible that knowing she’s accepted Dave the OPs sister will end up very possibly with other friends of Dave’s ilk.

The Op’s child needs to not see their Aunt as a safe person because of her taste in friends and the likelihood of her being targeted