Sister is in contact with convicted paedophile - what to do??

[jasmine465]

I'm absolutely reeling after a discussion with my sister last night.

Background is, my sister in her late 20's, lives independently but could be considered vulnerable, she has a plethora of mental health problems and a history of being manipulated by people, as well as being the manipulator herself in certain situations. We have been on and off not in contact over the last decade, always instigated by me due to poor behaviour on her part, but have been in regular contact, meeting up etc since the birth of my daughter 18 months ago. She absolutely dotes on my daughter, and while I would never leave her in sole charge of her, I have been happily leaving them playing downstairs for example while I get on with housework.

My sister has a male friend (we shall call him Dave) who she met in primary school and they have been friends for years. He's always been a support to her during her mental health struggles and he is probably her closest, oldest friend.

We met up for a family event last night, and she had a phone all and disappeared for about 45 minutes talking on the phone. When she got back I asked who it was and she told me it was Dave. I asked after him and she told me something about him having moved away for work. I said I was sorry to hear that as I knew they'd been close, and the conversation moved on.

Much later in the evening, we were chatting about plans and I asked if she had plans to go and meet Dave in his new city and when she last saw him etc. She then disclosed that he hadn't moved away at all and he was actually in prison. She said he had been 'accused of being a paedo, but it was all lies'.

I googled his name, and an article came up from when he was sentenced, which was over a year ago - he was convicted of sexual assault of a child, forcing a child to commit sexual acts and making indecent photos of children. It was two little girls he abused and he is currently serving a 5 year prison sentence and will be on the sex offenders register for life.

Obviously, these crimes are abhorrent and are a HUGE deal. Talking to my sister, she claims she knows the mother of the children and she has made it all up, he didn't do it and was advised to plead guilty. She seems to genuinely believe he has been fitted up and is innocent. She said she has been in regular contact with him, receiving phone calls from prison and has visited him on several occasions with his parents.

My first instinct was to cut her off completely and never allow her near my family again as she is knowingly in touch with a convicted paedophile, who I'm sure she will meet up with in person when he's released, given she's visited him in prison. Now having slept on it, I'm not sure if, given her vulnerabilities, I should attempt to reason with her and get her to see that he must be guilty? The news article lays out what evidence the police found in order to convict him - there is no way someone has been able to fabricate this. Having said that, I also know if I did this and gave her an ultimatum about her being in contact with him, there is a reasonable chance she would just carry on in secret and lie to me about it. She has form for doing this.

I'd really appreciate some insights into this and any advice on what to do going forward. I'm absolutely disgusted about the whole situation.

Personally I would never run the risk with my own child. Having a brother who isn't interested in bring involved with your DC is a whole world away from a sister who is being groomed by a paedophile!
OP asked for opinions, mine is I would never run the risk. Hindsight is too late.

I’d show your sister the articles and keep repeating that Dave is guilty. She is in denial but at some point the truth may sink in. In any case he’s in prison for another 4 years so no immediate danger. Definitely no photos as PP have suggested. Keep an eye on the situation- things may be very different by the time he is released. I’d not cut off a vulnerable sister at this stage on these facts. If she becomes closer to him over time then I would rethink on his release.

It would be very easy for your sister to show her friend a photo of your daughter. It would be incredibly easy in fact this guy probably already knows lots about your baby already. I’d be very clear with her and find ways to show her that he has done bad things, even if he is a ‘nice person’ 🤢.
If she can’t get it then you need to be very strict on blocking access to your daughter at all. He could do so much with any photo or video of her. Im so sorry. This is such a dreadful to be in.

@Whothefuckdoesthat summed it up perfectly.

@PersonallyVictimizedByReginaGeorge he will very easily be able to learn about her niece and get photos and videos from her phone. He could do terrible things with those photos and he would also learn as much as he can and even find ways to access her. I’m sorry but the fact the sister is this vulnerable and in denial means she will give him a lot of information and there could be a lot of damage. Why would you risk this?

I'd cut her out in a heart beat. I'd never have a pedo sympathiser around my child.

Would adult social services be interested in the sister? OP says she could be considered vulnerable due to mental health problems - she doesn’t describe learning difficulties. She’s an adult making a poor choice.

People that associate with paedophiles do deserve to be cut off. Even though this woman has vulnerabilities it is the right thing to do.

I would however be contacting social services because even if you don’t know the name of her worker you can pass this information on. I would also make plain to my relative why I was cutting them off.

She has brains she makes her choices, I would not trust her judgement so I would leave her to her life and carry on with mine

If she wants to believe everyone is innocent that is up to her I would not feel I need to educate her she makes her decisions as a grown woman

@Catsmere I don't doubt it. And the denial is crazy. If you have been following the Madeleine Soto case in America, the mother's paedo boyfriend abused Madeleine and then murdered her and his parents are angry with the child's mother. (Undoubtedly she failed her child but she failed her child by not protecting her from a paedo, but the paedo's parents are angry with her ) so I fully understand the denial at play in situations like this.

But if as a parent you make the decision to never leave your children alone with your sister, never mind her 'friend' then what is it you think will happen?

And does a relationship with a sister have no value? Should a sister (a vulnerable sister) be binned because her vulnerability might make her fail to protect OP's kids? if that's the case, never, ever put her in a situation where it is her responsibility to protect your kids!

This is possible.

Contact duty social workers they will put a message for her worker.

I wouldn't go no contact with your sister. I would try to make her see sense regarding this friend and obviously wouldn't allow the friend anywhere near my children.

Op wouldn't leave her dd with her sister now, but this guy could still be hovering about when ops dd is 12/13.

Dd goes off to visit her aunt, this guy is there, being nice, dd gets told not to say anything because Mum doesn't like this really nice bloke.....

I would also be horrified if she was visiting him and showing photos of her niece.

I wouldn't like to do it, but I would absolutely be cutting contact at this point. Your sister isn't a safe person to be around your child.

I think what I would do is make sure I only saw my sister either alone or, if with my daughter, all together, never leaving her alone with your sister. I’d also make it very clear that my own view is that he’s guilty and that I am not interested in hearing about his life, him or his excuses and certainly not meeting him.

If you cut her off I think the issue is you’re isolating her more and if you only ever meet your sister on your terms and never leave your daughter with her then for the time being you’ve mitigated any risk.

Sadly I would cut contact as I couldn't risk having my children appear as possibilities on the radar for a paedophile. He will hear them talked about, see their photos, know where they're going to be at times if you stay in touch. And he may well have friends who are their pictures too. I just couldn't take the risk.

This man is taking advantage of your sister don't cut her off. Say you don't believe "Dave" for a second and don't give your sister access to photos of the baby, if your Sister stops talking to you because of "Dave" that's actually on her but if you shun your sister completely then she is more vulnerable than before.

This org are amazing and should be able to discuss best way to handle it OP

https://www.stopitnow.org.uk

If you stay in contact with your sister there is no way you should leave your dd alone with her for even a minute. I have worked with vulnerable girls and women in a secure setting and in some sad cases there is not a thing they won't do to appease someone who is taking advantage of them. I hate to write this down but it only takes seconds for her to get a photograph for him.
I also knew a young woman who had to be escorted when out as she would try and grab toddlers. For the very same group of men who had abused her when she was little. She never got very far but her need to please these men was all she focused on.
I know the trend on Mumsnet is to say none of your business no matter what but they must have no idea the lengths a child abuser will go for the chance to abuse. Young women like the OP's sister are the perfect bait for men like this.

Keep an eye out by all means @jasmine465 but do not leave her alone with you child again. Even for a second.

The other things to consider are why on earth you would want your child to have a close relationship with someone you wouldn’t trust to be in a room alone with them? By allowing her access, you’re telling your child that you trust this adult not to hurt her, and that it’s ok for your child to trust that adult too. And that is simply not the case. Not because she’s wicked, or she doesn’t love your child but because she doesn’t have the capacity to judge what is best for your DD.

Also, this; We have been on and off not in contact over the last decade, always instigated by me due to poor behaviour on her part, but have been in regular contact, meeting up etc since the birth of my daughter 18 months ago Even if you don’t want to lose your sister over this, eventually she’s going to push you into cutting contact with her again. Why risk your daughter’s well being?

I would not cut off my sister who was vulnerable and being actively groomed by a sex offender, no. I would worry that by cutting her off, I would play into the narrative he will be feeding her that "everyone is against me/us" etc. My hope would be that by continuing to love and support her, and continuing to provide her with a grounding in reality which is entirely separate from him, I could also continue to have influence and that this may eventually be what prevents her from having children with a convicted paedophile. Cutting off someone who is being groomed or abused almost always results in them being driven further towards that person.

HOWEVER, it would be the end of her relationship with my children and she would not see or hear from them again, would not receive updates, would not receive pictures, would not be in the loop at all regarding their lives or routines. I would make crystal clear to other family members that this was the cast iron rule regarding DSis, and that anyone passing on information or photos would also be removed from their lives. No warnings or seconds chances. The stakes really are that high, and there is no room for negotiation when it comes to my children's safety. I'm sure most mothers would feel the same. I also would not be meeting the paedophile and would not be attending any event where he is present. The children would not be attending any family event where DSis was present.

There's a lot of over reactions here about risk to your daughter. Your sister is not a paedophile. The paedophile is in prison. Your sister has no contact with your daughter when you're not in the house, so I struggle to see how there's any risk to your child in any way if you decide to continue her current relationship with her aunt. That said, to have contact with someone who is supportive of a paedophile is conflicting to say the least. In your sisters defence, her vulnerability may be preventing her from wise judgement and her need for this man in her life is pushing her into denial. She isn't defending paedophilia, she is refusing to accept her friend I'd guilty of it, and there is a difference. Only you can decide if you can get past her support of him, it's a deeply personal decision.

Men like Dave see weakness in women like your sister and isolate them, it gives them power that they are seen as supportive of them, I understand your need to protect your Dd she is your priority but keep communications open with your sister

He's in prison. As a convicted sex offender. His calls and his mail are monitored. If OPs sister is on his call and VO list which she seems to be, she's been vetted.

If he has an illegal smartphone in prison, that should be reported as it's a criminal offence. Doesn't sound like he does as he's the one calling Dsis in the evening during association.

OP said she wouldn't allow her DC to be in sole care of her Dsis anyway and likely now won't let unsupervised contact anyway.

So, OPs child isn't at risk.

But OPs sister is potentially vulnerable and being manipulated and I don't think cutting her off without discussing it with her or just because she's in contact with this man is likely to be helpful and more likely to make her think that now not only this man is a victim and suffering because of lies, but so is she.

It'll push her further towards him and make it less likely she'll be likely to tell anyone anything in the future.

You have to be careful and strategic with these offenders; absolutely take all safeguarding measures to protect DC which i'm sure OP is. But making them feel like the worst of the worst (even though they may be) and anyone who employs them, houses them or associates with them is just as bad or risky as them in many ways and treated similarly, just pushes them further underground into more secrecy, lies, and self-victimisation and they manipulate others to do the same.

And that's dangerous for everyone.

Having it out in the open and responding proportionately is safer.

I wouldn’t cut her off from me if she’s vulnerable, but I would cut off her relationship from my child.

Paedophiles often associate with others of the same ilk. I wouldn’t risk your child seeing your sister as someone she can trust. Don’t want her bumping into her Aunt and a friend at the park, or while out on a play date etc and not realising that her aunt isn’t a person that can be trusted to keep her safe.

With respect, this is very naïve.