To have a niggling feeling that my bf won't propose to me?

[Cheesygirl]

I have a niggling feeling that my bf won't propose to me. We have a very good relationship where he is thoughtful takes care of me, gifts etc.
I fell pregnant very early in the relationship and now we have a six month old daughter. He is a good father(he now does 50% that I have gone back to work). We are saving to buy a house, he has a life insurance set up for me and my daughter and he shows he is committed all the way.
However I have the niggling feeling he won't propose to me for engagement or marriage. He says he wants to marry me and our daughter to be a bridesmaid in our wedding when she is about 3-4 and he has told other people as well.
He hasn't However spoken about any engagement interim or any other form of formal commitment. I asked him to sign a cohabitation agreement with me but didn't want to saying real love doesn't need contracts and he finds it insulting.
I do believe that he loves me a lot he is saying that daily and doing things to prove it so there's no doubt about that. Yesterday we were on a date day at the Natural History Museum and we were at the gemstone section. I told him that I like the aquamarine stone and I would like some day a ring with this on it. He was joking about Haribo rings and he had some banter throughout. When we went to the pub, I was looking at rings (not Engagement just jewellery) with aquamarine. We looked at a few and said that he wouldn't buy me a cheap ring. Then I said what about engagement rings? As the description of a few rings was mentioning engagement. He replied, "Where did that come from " . I said it is on the description. "This isn't what it is about " he said then.
Then he continued the joke about Haribo rings and that I shouldn't wear it on my left finger in case of confusion. I said so what you wouldn't want people to think we are engaged or married? He replied definitely not with a Haribo ring lol. I said to him is that how much you value me? He said obviously he was joking about that and that love is not counted in material value. I said to him that's a part of it as well. But something about his whole reaction to the engagement ring mentions threw me off so I wasn't as warm the rest of the evening. He picked up on that and started asking what is going on and if I love him. He then said I'm his everything to him.
The thing here is that he is showing that to me daily. However I just have this feeling inside me. I dont know if I'm right or wrong here. I don't believe he is lying when he says he loves me etc.

You need to relax, you haven’t been together long, yeah there has been a pregnancy and a baby thrown into the mix but you are both still getting to know each other. It’s only been 1.5yrs you’ve been together, in the grand scheme of things, that’s nothing.

As for those saying a baby is a huge commitment, it really isn’t when you see how many people separate after having a baby. The commitment when having a baby is to the baby and to be the best parents you can be.

enjoy your relationship as it is for now without putting more pressure on it.

Then you need to have the conversation and tell him this.

Standing in a public museum is not the right time or place.

Maybe you need to explain to him why getting married is so important to you. Like literally a list of all the positives and advantages you can think of, no matter how bureaucratic or boring.

To a lot of people there's no rush or they don't see it as important at all, having a child together and living together and parenting together 24/7 is far more of a commitment than a bit of paper. Some people want to avoid it because they don't want the stress of planning it all or feeling like they're the centre of attention or they have family issues where things could involve drama.

I'm in that situation, marriage doesn't have a meaning to me (I have the relationship I want already), so I don't care.

I don't understand some of the responses here. OP, if both of you agreed to have children outside marriage and were happy with that, that would be one thing. But you have made it clear you want to marry. This idea that it is too soon for him is ridiculous. The moment he had unprotected sex with you, he consented to have a child, and once you've conceived, he's tied to you for life. I'd tell him that he either formalises your relationship by marrying you pronto, or you're prepared to leave the relationship and start over with someone who actually cares about your feelings.

Tldr: if you're not 'the one', he should have used condoms.

Have you had a discussion about future children together? Is that in the pipeline or are you one and done?

I have been on MN for 18 years and honestly the whole I would like our child to be a flower girl at 3-4 years old usually turns into let's have another baby, that is more important than a wedding and before you know it you are now 6 years down the line from here with 2 children and still no wedding because the children cost too much and how will you afford it bollocks.

Personally I think getting married sooner where you can palm off a baby for the day onto anyone who will hold them is better than the 3 year old flower girl situation. Our friends got married with a 7 and 4 year old. The whole focus of the day for the bride and groom was on their children no matter how many willing people tried to take care of the children and then the wedding night was a family room with all 4 of them in it.

If he wanted to marry you and be engaged to you he would be. If he is saying a flower girl aged 3-4 then he will marry you in 2027 you can be engaged now with a view to that being your wedding year. Bet he won't commit to that though.

A baby is more of a commitment than a wedding/marriage though. It's a lot easier to get break up and never see each other again with no kids involved.

As somebody who left a man who wouldn't marry me (although I later realised I was mad to want to marry him) I might be projecting here.

But I'd go the other direction. Don't announce manifesto style, but just tell him quietly that you were overly focused on the ring to distract you from the realisation you've had, that he doesn't feel blessed to have met you, he jeopardises your relationship by not valuing it, or you. He doesn't want to value you or secure the relationship. Just look at him and let him know that that's what you've realised.

Then think about what you have on your own. You're daughter, your job, your future, your optimism, your belief in yourself?!?!?!? that last one is what holds us in crappy relationships with half-hearted men.

Why is he the only one who gets a say in the timeline? I would just discuss it with him.

So I had a discussion with him right now and I told him that the reaction in the rings conversation was quite bizarre for someone who claims to be serious about me. He said that he was taken aback when talking about rings as he thought I was hinting on engagement. He said he is absolutely serious about me and he wants engagement before marriage. He apologised he didn't mentioned this step before as he thought that I would know this is how it goes normally. I told him that no there was no mention of engagement. He apologised again but yes he is including engagement to the steps. He said that I told him I don't really care about marriage which his true. But I told him I don't want a forever girlfriend situation and I want a formal acknowledgement of the relationship if not engagement a promise ring. He said that engagement is what he would like to do and then marriage. In the span of the 4 years.
I asked him if he is sure this is what he wants because I don't want to be strung along and if I keep asking it means I'm not convinced. He re assured me once again that engagement is the first step and then marriage.

So the conversation ended there. To be honest he shows he os committed in every way so for now I will wait some time and if no action I'll bring it up again.

Why 4 years though? What does he think will be different in 4 years?

I think you've succumb to the Hollywood romantic fantasy where things need not be spoken and the protagonists just know by sensing each other's feelings. Just tell him you want to get married because you love him and have a family, and ask him if he wants to get married too. You then go from there.

It shows he's committed?
No, it shows he's setting the agenda and controlling the timeline.

Nothing. It's about him maintaining control over the situation.

It might be financial. Ask him op if he feels you are expecting a big wedding etc.

If you are, then you may need to wait. If genuinely not, ask him why he needs the time. In fairness it may be that 18 months doesn’t feel a long time to know someone,

Yet again women waiting around to be proposed to, thinking it needs to be the man’s decision. Why does he get to decide the 4 year timeline OP?

You bang on about not wanting to be a forever girlfriend OP but how is a forever fiancée any better? Please don’t get a “promise ring” you’re not 14.

Yes I don’t see the point of the engagement if you aren’t “ bothered” about marriage. Are you sure it isn’t the ring you are after op?

How do you live with a man, have him father to your child, see him as a life partner, but remain unable to have the most basic of straight conversations? This man has presumably watched you give birth, yet when it comes to asking him if and when you'll be married, you're suddenly all coy and talking in hints, jokes and sulks. "DP I want to be married. Do you want this as well, and if so, what's the plan and timescale? Because I'd prefer...(whatever)"

It sounds like he definitely doesn’t want to be married.
I know of several men coerced into marriage ( pestering, tears, pressure) and these weddings did go ahead- only to break down a few years later.

There was a painful and expensive divorce in each case

There weren’t children involved in all of these)

It was Marriage can make some people feel trapped - it’s far more than “just a piece of paper “

If a man ( or woman) is reluctant to marry , it’s pointless to force them, as it’s just done under duress.

Having kids before marriage is very risky as it leaves one unprotected.

A really Uber wealthy woman has children- but isn’t married to their dad- She’s not wanting to lose any of her vast wealth in case of divorce- but in her case money and child support is nothing to worry about.

Your daughter is only six months old and he has visions of her being a bridesmaid at 3 or 4.

I would drop the engagement thing, it will or won't happen but if you keep on at it then it will become a 'thing' and not a positive one either. If it then happens you'll possibly not feel good about it because you had to push so hard.

If he's a good father and partner then leave it at that. If a co-habitation agreement is needed then be matter of fact about it - ask him what the big deal is of signing it (do not mention engagements and rings).

If you're covered financially should something happen to him then that's good, for you and your daughter.

You live together, have a child together - sounds like a relationship to me. Do you not discuss your long term plans and goals for your future? If you want an engagement and marriage as a part of that, you need to discuss it with him.

Why would you want the OP to play the damsel passively sitting around and waiting what The Man decides? Quite allright if OP sets her own priorities and voices them.

OP I'd be concerned he describes his "plans" so they're several years off. What if you have/want more kids in the meantime - will he postpone for a fee years more? It all screams cop-out to me.

The fundamental difference yet again between weddings and marriage. If people wish to be legally married it can be booked swiftly and costs very little.

Ugh. Who made him the one in charge?! This is very off-putting.

Ah, I see! He’d already laid out timelines about marriage, but your upset came from the fact he hadn’t mentioned in that timeline when he would buy a ring and propose?

To be honest, that coupled with the fact you have said you aren’t fussed about the marriage itself, says you want a big proposal and a ring. An engagement isn’t a commitment. Read the millions of threads on here about the perpetually engaged who can’t pin their partner down to a marriage.

All that said, he sounds great. He’s put financial measures in place to secure your future if anything happens to you, he’s open to conversations about this and had previously laid out a timeline for marriage. I disagree with other posters, he’s allowed to have a timeline he’s comfortable with and currently he’s prioritising making sure you have financial security and saving for your own home. If you aren’t comfortable with that timeline that’s a different issue.

Yep this OP.

There is no victory in forcing people to do something they don’t want to do . The point of marriage is people want to join their lives in that way.