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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

3 strikes Mil - I am done with her and going no contact.

228 replies

NoContactMil · 11/07/2024 12:50

I am done with my Mil. 3 strikes I’m out, and I will be going no contact really. She has negatively effected my mental health over the past 15 years and is the biggest problem in my marriage. I have name changed as I will likely send this to my Dh and his mother. I am sorry this is a long one.

Strike 1: She tries to dictate and control every aspect of my Dh’s / our lives from very small things to big things. She tries to control all family events and holidays. She treats us like we are incapable children. She wants to know everything, and does not think we are entitled to any privacy. If she doesn’t get her way she will use guilt trips, emotional blackmail, bribery and tantrums.
Examples:

  1. She didn’t want us to have a baby and told Dh "I hope your not trying for a baby" after we got married. When Dh told her I was pregnant she was almost in tears on the phone asking how will we cope. She was also very against me breastfeeding. For the first month after having dc she would ring almost every day asking if I had stopped breastfeeding, and even told Dh if I stop breastfeeding she will buy him a perfect prep machine telling my husband “my friend started formula feeding and they and baby were much happier”.
  2. When we have decided I will be a sahm because of the cost of travel and childcare. Mil told Dh I should just work because I need a job and even tried to bribe him by saying she will pay for part of nursery as my son will be better off in nursery.
  3. She tries to pick out different jobs for Dh and even links him jobs. She got Dh's step father to tell him its nice he enjoys his job but he should be earning more to support his family (we are financially fine and have never asked them for money). The jobs she picks out don't even pay much better. They are just a lot closer to her. She even tried to suggest we buy Dh’s step fathers house he is selling that is round the corner from them (even telling Dh to send a thank you to him as he is trying to be helpful and we should be grateful).
  4. She tried to get us to invite my Sil’s new boyfriend to our christening, I said no. Then Mil and Sil kept sending Dh messages saying we are being awful and they "don't deserve to be treated like this", and that my behaviour is not normal and that “we are tearing the family apart”. They even got Dh’s father involved offering to pay for the food if we invited him.
  5. She is obsessed with what we spend our money on or how much we earn. She told my Dh the maximum amount he should spend on my engagement ring. She demanded to know how much we were going to donate at my sons Christening at the church in front of everyone. For my daughters christening she was hoovering over him watching as he donated the money. Comments why we bought things, or how much things cost. When I recently started a Phd she was demaning to know how much I being paid for doing it.
  6. For family members birthdays she contacts Dh to make sure he sends cards and presents. Sometimes she even tries to pick the present he should get or tell him how much he should spend. She will contact dh many times reminding him and double checking he has done it. She does this if he goes to a friends wedding as well. This is the same for sending people flowers or than you cards. We were too busy to send thank you cards for gifts within a week after the birth of our son so she sent a pack of thank you cards in the post, telling us when we must send them. She does this for family news as well, telling him to text or call friends or family about things. Like you must call so and so to tell them about such and such. Or telling dh that he must send our wedding and christening invites / information to people by a certain time. Or that we must announce the birth on Facebook. She even told Dh who to send our baby scan pictures to.
  7. When we visit for Christmas she would tell Dh I need to talk to other family members more, and I need to make an effort on Christmas day and dress up and wear make-up. You also would get woken up at 7am and told to come to living room in your pyjamas to open presents. I could go on and on - the whole day was controlled. For years it was always us going there for Christmas and boxing day. When we got our first house, the first time we were going to spend it with my parents her reply was "but it could be your grandmothers last Christmas".
  8. She does not even think we are allowed medial privacy – she even asked Dh what vaginal exams I was having after giving birth. I could go on and on....

Strike 2: She will say nasty things all the time and in addition to her terrible behaviour. She will then gaslight and play the victim if you call her out on her behaviour. She will lie and deny a lot of the things I'm saying here.
Examples

  1. My son has had a language delay and behaviour issues since the age of 1. She would constantly insinuate it was our fault asking things like “are we even talking to him” and pointing out his behaviour is “not normal”. One time commenting “don't you even know your own age” in an almost mocking way when he could not answer (dc was age 3). After he was diagnosed as being autistic we asked for an apology for her behaviour towards us all. Instead she denied she said any of it and said “how can you think that of me, an I wont tell step Fil that you think that of me”.
  2. When we were were moving in together and DH was buying a house dh's step father sent an email to both of us insinuating I might be a gold digger so be careful, and make sure we both do what is right.
  3. One weekend we said she couldn't visit because I was really ill with an infection (mastitis). She didn't visit for months and just sent texts implying we were stopping her from seeing her grandchild. She also looked for any minor excuse to try to blame him or scold him for something for months.
  4. She will make comments about our appearance – like I should make an effort and wear makeup and I would look better. If Dh puts on a little weight, she tells him he needs to walk to work (5 miles away), only have 1 meal a day, asks if he is eating to much junk food, and when she visits touches his belly and makes comments.
  5. She treats Bil wife better. When Bil's wife was in a car accident (did not need to go to hospital) she demanded we send her cards and flowers. When I was hospitalized for a week due to pneumonia while 25 weeks pregnant, I did not even get a message from Bil and Sil, never mind a card.
  6. As we have gone more low contact over the years she is constantly saying my behaviour is “not normal”.

Strike 3: She tries to control people with money and is obsessed with money. And now she is trying to take some of Dh’s inheritence he got from his grandfather decades ago. Mil thinks Dh and his 2 siblings should pay towards her mothers (their grandmothers) burial and the debt she had when she died. Dh's grandmother had no money/ savings, no house/ estate when she died and the debt was overpaid pension and gas/ electric bill. My mil has over half a million in savings (i know because she recently sold 2 of her houses), and lives in a 5 bedroom house. We have two young children and live in a small 3 bedroom house and trying to save every penny for a bigger house. I have not been able to work for the previous 6 years because my son has been quite high needs.

AIBU to go zero contact, and send her this mumsnet post. Me and my children are not making any effort with her, not visiting her or staying at her house. She is not having unsupervised access to my children. My foot is down on this - she is Dh’s problem. Mil and Dh can complain all they like. It's if she wants to visit us she can, but if she tries to be manipulative or controlling, or point out what my children can’t do – then she won’t be seeing them at all. The only issue is do I supervise her when she is with my children as I can't trust Dh to do anything if she manipulate or insults our children. She will never change, she will just gaslight or play the victim, so I am done with her.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 11/07/2024 19:04

@NoContactMil

TBH, you've been posting about MiL for some time. I don't think you're listening to people's responses.

Certainly, you should go NC with her, no doubt. And you need to cut your DH off immediately if he even mentions her with "I don't want to hear a single thing about her or what she thinks or says". Especially, you need to cut him off if he starts complaining about her with "You make your bed, you lie in it".

But what you don't seem to be 'digesting' is the fact that this will never end as long as 1-your 'wet lettuce' DH kowtows to her and 2-that you have no 'say' in what his relationship is with his parents/family. Given those two things you're either going to have to make peace with his behaviour or you're going to have to leave him. There's no middle ground.

And NC should happen with no advance notice and no explanations. You simply block MiL on all platforms and 'cease to exist'.

Ivymom · 11/07/2024 19:32

Ideally, you can refuse visits for your children with MIL. Since we can’t always have what’s best, be prepared. It sounds like he fears MIL’s displeasure more than he loves you.

If your DH insists on serving your DC up to MIL, be present so you can witness anything and step in to protect the kids. Have therapy lined up for them and document every vile thing she says/does, his lack of protecting your children and what you do to protect them. Tell your DH in advance of the visit that it is his job to tell MIL beforehand that she can’t say/do vile things to any of you. If she does, he needs to call her out and immediately end the visit. If he fails to do so, you will and won’t be as tactful as he would.

Practice remaining calm while saying things like “that was a vile thing to say. This visit is over and you need to leave/we are leaving”. Teach your kids a “game” of running to their rooms whenever you say a code word. This way they can hopefully not witness as much drama.

Write out what a good visit with a loving grandmother should look like and then write out what visits with MIL are like. Show this to your husband so he can see first hand how bad she is.

Practice gray rocking and bean dipping. Gray rock is to be as unemotional and boring as possible. Don’t give any information. One word answers. Everything is fine. You are well. Nothing exciting is going on, etc….

Bean dipping is changing the subject without reacting. For example, your husband says “MIL has been so ill lately”. You reply “Sorry to hear that. Would you like beef or chicken for dinner?” (Say it without emotion and refuse to engage about MIL). If he continues, “MIL needs to see the children, don’t you care about her, etc…”. You calmly restate your boundaries and reiterate your change of subject, ie “We already discussed that MIL isn’t safe for the children to be around/I don’t discuss MIL. I think we’ll have chicken tonight”. Then walk away.

Keep being the calm, reasonable person. If you manage to get husband to couples therapy, only discuss MIL in therapy. Encourage husband to get individual therapy, where he can discuss MIL and process her toxicity and learn coping mechanisms. Your peace will be a huge contrast to MIL’s volatility and hopefully your husband will choose peace.

I have toxic in-laws. In the beginning, I would get upset. After our children were born, I set boundaries and dropped the rope. One of my boundaries is I only communicate with them at in person visits that only happen every few years, we live pretty far away. I don’t discuss them and don’t want to hear about their dramas. My DH has always had my back, but had to learn what was and wasn’t toxic. When I first dropped the rope and bean dipped instead of engaging about them, it threw him off. One time, he point blank asked me if I disliked them. I calmly stated “Yes. I spent years trying to like them, but they haven’t done anything to make themselves likable to me. I’m not discussing them anymore. Do you want to order pizza for dinner?” This made something click with him because he was so used to dramatics from them. He realized how much he likes peace and did the work to disengage from their drama.

Daleksatemyshed · 11/07/2024 20:13

Until you get your DH to see his DM as she really is this is always going to be a losing battle Op. He's been conditioned his whole life to give in to her every whim and without therapy it's going to be incredibly difficult to change that. Don't send her a copy of the thread, just quietly leave her life, ignore her calls, e mails, text, whatever. Every time your DH tries to guilt trip you just tell him you're done, he can do as he likes but you won't be seeing her. For the record, I'd have stopped seeing her long ago, your MIL treats you like children because she wants to be the adult, the most important person in your DH's life and nothing will change her

NoContactMil · 11/07/2024 20:26

@Ivymom Thanks, great advice

Thanks for all the replies, I can see that sending Mil this thread would only make things worse for me. I can't think rationally when it is to do with my Mil, since she makes me so angry and has really effected my MH negatively. Thanks for stopping me being so silly

OP posts:
BowlOfNoodles · 11/07/2024 20:37

NoContactMil · 11/07/2024 20:26

@Ivymom Thanks, great advice

Thanks for all the replies, I can see that sending Mil this thread would only make things worse for me. I can't think rationally when it is to do with my Mil, since she makes me so angry and has really effected my MH negatively. Thanks for stopping me being so silly

👌 Do not give her the satisfaction other people mentioned this and I think you shouid pop on utube and have a little listen to the grey rock method. What sounds better? Ya wife went nuclear on me? Or she won't acknowledge me? You know somebody's reach a limit when they won't give you the time of day?

Sidehustles · 11/07/2024 21:05

herownworstenemy · 11/07/2024 16:48

Here you go:

At some point in her life, she gave the boat a little nudge. And look how everyone jumped to steady the boat! So she does it again, and again. Soon her family is in the habit of swaying to counteract the rocking. She moves left, they move right, balance is restored (temporarily). Life goes on. People move on to boats of their own.

The boat rocker can't survive in a boat by herself. She's never had to face up to the consequences of her rocking. She'll tip over. So she finds an enabler: someone so proud of their boat-steadying skills that they secretly (or not so secretly) live for the rocking.
The boat rocker escalates. The boat steadier can't manage alone, but can't let the boat tip. After all, they’re the best boat steadier ever, and that can't be true if the boat capsizes, so therefore the boat can't capsize. How can they fix the situation?
Ballast!

And the next generation of boat-steadiers is born. A born boat-steadier doesn't know what solid ground feels like. They’re so used to the constant swaying that anything else feels wrong and they’ll fall over. There's a good chance the boat rocker never taught them to swim either. They’ll jump at the slightest twitch like their life depends on it, because it did. When you're in their boat, you're expected to help steady it. When you decline, the other boat steadiers get resentful. Look at you, just sitting there while they do all the work! They don't see that you aren't the one making the boat rock. They might not even see the life rafts available for them to get out. All they know is that the boat can't be allowed to tip, and you're not helping.

Eventually you get a boat of your own. With you not there, the balance of the boat changes. The remaining boat steadiers have to work even harder.
While a rocking boat is most concerning to those inside, it does cause ripples. The nearby boats start to worry. They're getting splashed! Somebody do something! So the flying monkeys are dispatched. Can't you
and your partner see how much easier it is for everyone (else) if you just get back on the boat and keep it steady? It would make life so much easier. You know what would be easier? If they chucked the bitch overboard.

GAWWWWDAAMMIITTT !! I am saving this 'cause it's a masterclass!

Ivymom · 11/07/2024 21:08

NoContactMil · 11/07/2024 20:26

@Ivymom Thanks, great advice

Thanks for all the replies, I can see that sending Mil this thread would only make things worse for me. I can't think rationally when it is to do with my Mil, since she makes me so angry and has really effected my MH negatively. Thanks for stopping me being so silly

I’m over two decades in and my kids are almost grown. What has enabled me to protect them and break the cycle with toxic families is to work on myself and remain calm. My kids now have the confidence to assert and maintain their boundaries. My kids can articulate what toxic behaviors they witness and have stood up to my in-laws and called them out without loosing their tempers.

Getting distance from MIL will help. If your husband reacts badly to cutting her off, start with a time out. Take time to work on your mental health and your marriage. You already have an immense amount of stress with your high needs child. A few months without having to deal with, hear about or think about MIL can put you in a position to see everything more clearly. Don’t tell MIL, just be too busy right now to see her.

If your husband joins you in this time out, the peace and work on your marriage may help him to stand up for the family he is building with you and possibly give him the strength to limit contact with or cut off MIL.

As much as I would love to cut off my toxic in-laws, my DH can’t bring himself to it. As a compromise, the kids and I have limited in person contact every few years as long as he makes sure they behave appropriately. There have been negative things directed at me, but my DH has had my back and shut them down. I don’t know how much contact my DH has with them because my boundary is that unless it will affect me, I don’t want to hear about them. Because I’ve had the space to maintain my peace, I was willing to relax some of my boundaries to support my DH through their nightmarish behavior when one of them passed away. It is a give and take, but through it all, my DH can see that I’m the reasonable one who shows kindness to those who haven’t reciprocated.

Ivymom · 12/07/2024 00:01

NoContactMil · 11/07/2024 20:26

@Ivymom Thanks, great advice

Thanks for all the replies, I can see that sending Mil this thread would only make things worse for me. I can't think rationally when it is to do with my Mil, since she makes me so angry and has really effected my MH negatively. Thanks for stopping me being so silly

Something else to keep in mind. Everything you send her is information that tells her how to abuse you more. This is why gray rocking is so important. This thread, a burn letter, telling her off, etc… gives her information to hurt you even more the next time. If your husband calls her to complain she’s upset you, it tells her she is on the right track.

Cold, calculated, emotionless statements, followed by action, will most likely put a stop to her behavior. My in-laws are completely unnerved by me now. They very rarely dare put a toe across my boundaries because I don’t give them the upset they are hoping to see.

NoContactMil · 12/07/2024 07:12

@Ivymom Thanks for all the advice. It would just give her what she wants as she will just play the victim and me the bad guy again.

Did you kids see your inlaws unsupervised with your husband? Did he ever defend them if the inlaws did something?

nightmarish behavior when one of them passed away how much worse did they become? I'm slighty worried what mil will be like when she no longer has her husband (dh's step father)

OP posts:
Justasleep · 12/07/2024 09:04

Ivymom’s advice is good
I remember my MIL (before her son left me) getting MY mum involved, sending a card saying she hadn’t seen us for a few months. I didn’t know about narcs then.
My mum didn’t either and gave me bad advice.
I wish I had done what ivymom had done. DH left and had set up a whole second family with someone he was a boss to at work, who IS prepared to pander to her and she LOVES that they play happy families with my kids there too sometimes.

NoContactMil · 12/07/2024 09:11

@Justasleep That is awful.
I also did not really know about Narcissism before - well I thought it was just grandiose and boastful people and nothing about covert narcissim. Reading susan forwards toxic in laws was eye opening, because i used to think is it me being unreasonable as the whole family just go along with mil.

OP posts:
Justasleep · 12/07/2024 09:23

Great podcast called Insight Narcissism (has a book too)

GiveMeSpanakopita · 12/07/2024 09:33

CharlieUniformNovemberTangoYankee · 11/07/2024 18:33

The OP should be able to tell you what happened because she posted that one herself. And at least another two threads about the MIL.

Yes...I suspected as much. Same inimitable writing style.

There's an old saying: Everyone's got to deal with one arsehole in their lives. But if you find yourself dealing with two or three arseholes in your life, then it's time to stop and wonder if the real arsehole is you.

Justasleep · 12/07/2024 09:38

Sometimes it is common to find oneself dealing with not only one narc but several as they are all drawn to the personality type you have and it runs in families

herownworstenemy · 12/07/2024 10:13

Excellent, measured advice on this thread by @Ivymom. Those posts should have a permanent pinned thread in relationships, it'd save a lot of time.

My in-laws are completely unnerved by me now. They very rarely dare put a toe across my boundaries because I don’t give them the upset they are hoping to see. Its very interesting isn't it? grey rock and 'bean dipping' (never heard it called this) really does unnerve people like this, that has been my experience since I stopped giving information and changed my reactions.

Dealing with multiple arseholes doesn't necessarily make you the problem. That is sometimes true, but if you're an empathetic personality you can be a magnet for arseholes and abusers because you don't have the ability to spot them, weed them out early on or shed them when your life is being upended. Counsellors waiting rooms (&MN threads) aren't full of abusers, they're full of the abused.

DucklingSwimmingInstructress · 12/07/2024 11:20

Brilliant advice from @Ivymom

Justasleep · 12/07/2024 11:33

I agree Ivymom’s post should be pinned!

Julyshouldbesunny · 12/07/2024 11:37

Before we went nc with mil we agreed her name would not be mentioned in our home. Made for a more harmonious life.
Been over 9 years.

paywalled · 12/07/2024 11:41

You were told YANBU in your last thread last week. Why a second thread?!

Greydogs123 · 12/07/2024 11:57

How much contact would your Dh maintain without you? Would he be bothered to take two children over to visit? Or would he be more likely to pop in by himself?
The mumsnet classic of “you have a Dh problem” applies here as he is not supporting you and allowing his mother to ill-treat you and your children.

Ivymom · 12/07/2024 12:13

NoContactMil · 12/07/2024 07:12

@Ivymom Thanks for all the advice. It would just give her what she wants as she will just play the victim and me the bad guy again.

Did you kids see your inlaws unsupervised with your husband? Did he ever defend them if the inlaws did something?

nightmarish behavior when one of them passed away how much worse did they become? I'm slighty worried what mil will be like when she no longer has her husband (dh's step father)

I supervised every interaction with my in-laws until my kids were old enough and outspoken enough to stand up for themselves. Thankfully, while my DH didn’t see or understand in-laws’ abusive behaviors, he believed me when I said it was abusive. Since he grew up with it, to him it was normal. He would say “she didn’t mean it that way, or in a bad way” or “that’s just the way she is. Everyone just ignores it or doesn’t let it bother them”. However, he stood by me when I said that it bothered me and pointed it out that if she didn’t mean it in a bad way, then she would want to told how she was coming across so she could change.

When I started a relationship with my DH, I put up with a lot of nastiness, but I still required him to be on my side and put me first. We both spent years feeding into it by showing our upset and still making regular visits out of obligation and not rocking the boat. We ended up moving a very long distance away and that forced us to take a break from them. We got used to the peace and both realized that we needed to break the cycle. We started working on ourselves and surrounding ourselves with supportive people.

It was a few years later, during a very difficult and medically complicated pregnancy with my first child that I started hard boundaries and really put my foot down. We were poor as church mice and lived in a shoebox apartment, with barely room for us, let alone a baby. Some of the in-laws were trying to insist on traveling to us and staying with us for the baby’s birth and first three months. They were demanding we pay for the travel as we were the ones who moved.

My DH was considering trying to compromise, only paying for half of the travel and a three week stay. I refused it all. Told him that the baby and I were not going to be available to visit them while I was vulnerable and recovering from pregnancy/chilbirth and learning motherhood. I also pointed out that we needed the money for the baby, so couldn’t afford to “help” with their expenses.

I countered with that they could start saving now and would be able to afford travel and a few days in a hotel when baby was a few month old. By then he could use a few days vacation time for their visit, since I refuse to see them without him. He saw that this was reasonable and proposed it to them. They lost it. Blamed me for our move, when we moved for him, and said they were filing for grandparents’ rights and custody and visitation of our baby. I was terrified and devastated as gpr’s were a thing in their state. This woke his protectiveness towards me and baby even further. We researched and thankfully, the state we lived in wouldn’t enforce gpr’s.

I was ready to cut them off at that point, but knew he wasn’t. I played the long game. While I was so angry I could chew nails, I only expressed my fear and hurt that they would threaten to take baby away. He wanted to give them another chance, if they could calm down and be reasonable. This is where I put in hard boundaries as my compromise to him. I agreed to save up and visit them in a few months, once I was fully healed. We would have our own accommodations and would visit them, but he had to make sure they didn’t do or say anything hurtful. If they did and he didn’t address it in a way that showed me he was willing to protect us, I would cut them off from myself and any children.

I had spent the time away from them learning to gray rock like an ice queen. The visits were stressful, but only happened once a year at that point, and I let little jabs at me go, but made sure to point them out to my DH in private. He started calling them out privately, telling them he wouldn’t tolerate me or the children being mistreated. A few times, they would do or say something when he was out of earshot. This is when I very calmly pointed out their rudeness and told them we would leave. I would tell DH, in front of them and with no emotion, exactly what they said or did. Then I would announce that it was time to go and we would leave.

At first, it was a performance for me. I was seething inside. I wanted to argue and give them the brunt of my anger. I wanted my Dh to blow up at them on my behalf. The problem was, they spent two decades programming him to take their abuse. They normalized it to the point that he didn’t see it. He was so used to drama, shouting, gossiping and backbiting that if I behaved like that, it wouldn’t phase him or them. Because I spent our time away from them being the opposite of them, he got used to the peace.

We visit less often as a consequence of their behavior. I’m not willing to see them more and my DH understands why. He also now sees how damaging his childhood was and wants to protect our children from that. He has understood that he doesn’t always recognize their abuse because he was conditioned to accept it, so was willing not to take the children without me until they were able to call out anything hurtful. We have several children, but he has also only taken one at a time so he can fully supervise the visit. Only two of our children have been willing to visit without me and both have told the in-laws things they did or said was rude or inappropriate. My oldest is especially brilliant at this and is very calm and clinical when she does it.

Justasleep · 12/07/2024 12:20

Ivymom : another great and informative post

You also have a sensible DH

Mine started out sensible but was also a covert narc so soon switched to putting MIL (also a covert narc) first

CharlieUniformNovemberTangoYankee · 12/07/2024 12:41

GiveMeSpanakopita · 12/07/2024 09:33

Yes...I suspected as much. Same inimitable writing style.

There's an old saying: Everyone's got to deal with one arsehole in their lives. But if you find yourself dealing with two or three arseholes in your life, then it's time to stop and wonder if the real arsehole is you.

😂😂😂

BowlOfNoodles · 12/07/2024 12:49

Julyshouldbesunny · 12/07/2024 11:37

Before we went nc with mil we agreed her name would not be mentioned in our home. Made for a more harmonious life.
Been over 9 years.

I also used a ban on the name I second this

laraitopbanana · 12/07/2024 18:13

DracoDormiensNumquamTittilandum · 11/07/2024 12:53

Don't send her the post. No good can come of it. Assuming your DH is in agreement, just stop talking to her and seeing her. You aren't obliged to. He can do any communication necessary.

This!

any texts: don’t answer. Any nag : don’t answer. Any nag through DP : don’t answer.
if it is for you to organise something then send a text and then any further convo through your DP : don’t answer.

she will get the message.

if your dp disagree, same thing honestly. He doesn’t really get to tell you whom you need to text, he can text his mom himself 🤷🏼‍♀️

and when people meddle coz you « treat her badly » : don’t answer.

good luck!