to think that in a functional household....

[RedWineSupernova]

.....the parent of high school age children should be up before the kids and should oversee the getting ready for school, making sure everyone is leaving on time with everything they need etc, being on hand to help with any uniform issues/anything else going wrong etc.

Not sleeping in later than DC due to having stayed up late playing video games with their mates?

Parent has normal job wfh. No shift work. No illnesses or any other issues that would mean they need to sleep in later.

AIBU?

I wouldn't look askance at a parent who didn't get up with their teenaged kids if they were at home but I always did with my son. I'd make him a coffee and/or breakfast and have a chat and wave him off as it were.

Maybe it would be different if I had more than one child but I never wanted him to feel lonely and emotionally unsupported when he had to get up at six in the morning and leave at 7.20 to get the bus to school. He's off to uni in September and I'm happy I did.

My dm was up and out at work when we got to secondary school so wasn’t able to be there for us every morning. However she woke us before she left and uniforms were ready, bags packed and the breakfast stuff laid out the night before so we had an easy morning.

That being said, it wasn’t what I wanted for my kids. My dm had no choice as she was on her own but that wasn’t the case for us. Dh and I have prioritised being there for the dc in the morning and after school. I chose a job with flexibility as didn’t want them leaving or coming home to an empty house. Dh is usually able to pick up where I can’t and there have only been a small number of occasions where we haven’t been able to make it work. I actually think that kids need you more as they get older, but they won’t ask. Your dh is both letting your dd down and missing out.

Excellent post

Two unrelated issues really.

I don’t think most teenagers actively need support to get ready for school and out of the house. Certainly an older teen should be able to manage this.

But I think it’s a bit grim for a teenager to see a working age parent dossing in bed every morning. It’s depressing for the kid and the adult is setting a poor example.

How does your daughter feel about it? That's all that matters.

I only had my mum. She never got out of bed in the morning. It did make me sad and feel very alone tbh. But that's not your DD's circumstances and everyone is different.

*Hummingbird75
The same parents that can't be bothered to get up, are often the same ones that don't care about grades, nutrition, bed times, sleep hygiene, screen time, school attendance, completed homework, support with issues across the board. Being there as a parent of a teen can be imperative and parenting is still really very much needed.

It is not optional. In my view and indicates a culture of indifference, in my experience. I would not want that for my teens op, so I agree with you.*

I disagree
I let my teens get on with it themselves but I cared about all the important things

So judgy

Ummm, so my list are the 'unimportant' things??
So what IS important then if sleep, homework, nutrition isn't?
Occasionally checking they still have two legs and are still alive?

I think this depends on the work schedules and health of the adults and the independence level of the children . There are a lot of different ways to be a functioning family.

"The same parents that can't be bothered to get up, are often the same ones that don't care about grades, nutrition, bed times, sleep hygiene, screen time, school attendance, completed homework, support with issues across the board."

My endless meetings with the school SENCo, the fact we have a strict bedtime, no screens allowed in the bedrooms, get her to school on time, every single day, and have regular meetings/conversations with the school calls that an absolute untruth.

My dad used to get up at the crack of dawn - he made breakfast for the whole family (6 kids) - and when I say he made breakfast it was like a restaurant - he took orders, and he was quite passionate about breakfast being the most important meal of the day. My Mum was the last one up - she was like a demon possessed in the morning - the further away you were from her the better - she got washed and dressed and into the car to drive to work with as few words as possible. Her staying in bed would have been a blessing.😂 My Dad was no saint - he was a morning person though - but he only had transactional chats. He liked eating and cooking breakfast - neither parent would have won prizes for their behaviour!
DD is like my Mum - a demon in the morning - we stay out of her way, she wouldn't appreciate our presence in the slightest, sometimes I lie in bed waiting for her to leave because I know that coming downstairs will only annoy her.

I don't understand the point you are making here.

I don't understand how you don't get it.

This has been the funniest thread I've read in a while.

Martyr Mummies getting up at 5am to helicopter and "be present" with their 15yr olds that are raising helpless adult babies vs Lazy Bastards who are neglecting their children and could not give a shit about their DC, basically one step away from social services.

I've just asked 16yr DD if I should have gotten up and "been present" for her in the mornings before school. She pulled a face and said "No, that would have been weird". She managed to do well at school, 100% attendance and did her homework despite my terrible parenting. We're v close and spend a lot of time in the evenings together, I know more about her life than my parents knew about mine. So I think I did the right thing raising them to be independent in the mornings.

I am surprised so many do appear to be languishing in bed as their diligent teens press on every day. What are the school holidays for if it is not to enjoy the odd lie in if we are not working?! Or perhaps very few are working and that is the issue. That is a whole separate thread.

It is a lonely feeling being by yourself in the morning (my parents worked, which is fair enough) I would have been felt annoyed if they were just lying around all day, and think a lot less of them and find it hard to respect them.

I would have still done well at school, as I did that for myself, no thanks to them to be honest. Parents can't moan that they don't have a relationship with their dc when they do absolutely nothing to foster one. Evenings I would hope most teens will be busy doing sports, doing homework and sorting out their lunches and bags for the next day - it leaves pressure little time for much contact.

I am team op on this one.
I wouldn't stand for the gaming at night either.

It is not ‘pandering’ to be present and awake in the same house your children live in, modeling a functional family. I don’t think you have to actually do a single thing for teens in the morning but most school mornings a parent is ideally awake, saying good morning! Good luck on the test, see you after training. That is just being a parent not pandering, unless you also think cuddling my 2yo is pandering.

(This is the dream however know I will be shouting after my teens could you for once remember to empty the dishwasher?!)

So after your own thread you've gone from monitoring every aspect of your 15 year olds morning and literally doing everything for her and now you're letting her sort herself out, but it still bothers you what people think of that?

I don't understand why people do this on here, try to swear blind that if you're not one end of the scale then you MUST be the other, and try to insist you're either a helicopter/martyr/1950s parent and if you're not you must be lazy, neglectful and ruining your relationship?

Has all common sense gone out of the window? There are literally millions of families that are quite happily somewhere in the middle of these two preposterous examples, but in regards to this specific example where there is no disability or work interfering with the morning routine, then you just have to do what you think is right as a parent, once the kids are grown up, are you going to regret choosing to stay up late gaming and not being up to see them off every day? Or will it not bother you in the slightest and you feel that you've set them up for independence in the future? or are you somewhere in the middle of that? IMO there's nothing wrong with considering and reflecting on what you do now from time to time to make sure it's not something you will come to regret in the future, but only you as a parent can answer that question.

What exactly do you think that the OP can do about it? You say you wouldn’t stand for it but she can’t dictate what the ex does in his own home, it isn’t unsafe or neglectful parenting(if the 15 year old was 5 then yes it would be), the teen is seemingly happy enough or she wouldn’t go(she is of an age where she can decide). If you’d bothered to read the OP you would see that the ex isn’t languishing around all day, he works from home so presumably gets up and ready to start work on time.

Your dramatic posts have made me laugh though, so thanks for that on a rainy Tuesday.

I definitely think it's nice for the DC for a parent to be up to have a chat in the morning, say goodbye etc..

My year 7 DS is pretty organised usually, and I don't need to do much, but I couldn't imagine staying in bed while he sees himself out the door. I also want to make sure he actually eats something vaguely nutritious before school.

"Can't be bothered" indicates an uncaring attitude.
Thus not bothering to get up would also go along side not being bothered about other aspects of your child's welfare.

But I think you're saying that isn't the case.

Apologies if I have completely misunderstood, you'd be able to explain in person, I'm sure.

Or you're saying that despite caring about all those issues, your child still has problems with attendance, homework etc.
Yes, I think that's it. But I think a child with SEN (by definition) can pose challenges in all the areas you describe DESPITE the most attentive of parents.

She’s 15, not 5. She’s capable of getting on with it herself.

YABU.

It's not about being capable, I think people are agreed that secondary school kids should and can get themselves up and out in the morning.
It's about whether it's a good thing to do if you are able to (ie. not out at work).

In households where the youngster would benefit (in whatever way) from their parent being up to see them off to school, most people agree that the parent being asleep in bed is a bit poor.

Children get used to different ways of doing things in different places.

As for
making sure everyone is leaving on time with everything they need etc, being on hand to help with any uniform issues/anything else going wrong etc.

At 15 I very much step back from doing all this. I'm on to my 3rd 15 year old and have found out the more I do, they less they do. And if one day they don't have something they need or forget to bring something to school it is my fault for it not being available. Definitely need to start doing less for them at that age.

Your exH will be the type of parent he is. You'll be the type of parent you are, and your DD will have her own individual relationship with both of you.

Age six I was the first person in the household to get up to get to school 15 miles away. Both my parents worked.