To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

What would make Bryson 'faux'?

Exactly

Exactly this

It would help if anyone could define what 'trans' actually is.

However:

I am anti transing away the gay.
I am anti sterilising and mutilating teens for not conforming to stereotypes
I am anti rapists in womens prisons
I am anti forcing women to 'reframe their trauma' and having female only spaces invaded by men when seeking rape crisis help
I am anti creating lifelong patients beholden to a craven industry built on utter nonsense in order to create fortunes for the pharmaceutical behemoths

And I am anti being coopted into men's fetishes whilst teenage girls run screaming away from womanhood seeking refuge in pretending to be boys.

I don’t understand why reasonably-stated comments in support of keeping women's hard-won rights are "transphobia", or why you apparently think such statements of opinion should be censored.

I'm not particularly bothered by the toilets issue, but it seems obvious to me that it’s unfair for girls' and women's sports, awards, opportunities etc. to have to be extended to include people born male. It defeats the whole object of them.

No you are a women.

I’m very much a trans ally, and see the majority of the GC agenda/talking points as incredibly harmful not only to trans and non-binary people, but all women and men.

What is harmful to trans about Riley Gains saying she didn't want to share space where she is naked with an 6ft male?

What is harmful to trans people when they get a scholarship or a prize that was intended for a woman?

What is harmful to trans people about saying cross sex hormones are damaging?

Women having to share spaces with 'trans identified males' is harmful to women and girls.

One rape by a trans woman is too many but there have been loads, and loads more sexual and physical assaults. And then when a women reaches out to a rape crisis centre she is confronted with a trans identified male. Thank fuck for JKR.

What is harmful to trans people about Pip Bunce getting a 'woman of the year' award?

A trans identified male was able to punch a woman in the face in New Zealand and get away with it, to the extent of having his name redacted from reporting and court records.

OP Open your eyes.

For all those saying they are trans allies, I am genuinely interested in what you think about the nurses that made the news last week. Do you think they should just be forced to undress with a biological male even though it makes them uncomfortable?

It’s almost as if society just accepts men will be abusive and violent to everyone

Yep. I'll get in first with NAMALT and, by extension, NATALT. But the entire issue has been framed around trans women's presumed fear of being attacked by men. I have my doubts about this being the main motive but, leaving that aside, who seriously thinks women can solve the problem of male violence? If we could, we'd have done it ages ago.

Not sure whether it's relevant to say so, but in my many years of using the gents when I couldn't get into the ladies quick enough, I've never been attacked. I'm not sure trans women run that great a risk by using the sex-appropriate facility.

If men did attack a trans-identified male for 'being trans' in the gents, I suspect it would be due to homophobia. I am not even sure how big of a problem that is in the UK any more? In parts of the USA, yes, and some other countries. Does it still happen here?

All these big words being thrown around. They're discriminated against , they're marginalised. I don't get it.

I don't understand what rights trans people don't have. Biological man don't have the right to enter female only spaces. But they never had that right in the first place. They've had no rights taken away from them and they re not being discriminated against.

@poetryandwine I'd really like to hear how your home country approaches the toilet /changing room issues please. I'm interested.

I believe anyone can define themselves anyway they want to; my brother said he was a cat for a very long time and we were ok with that but we didnt operate him or try to physically transform him to a cat. Luckily because he is now very much a man and define as such.
My point is, young people are trying to find themselves and we shouldn't give them access to non reversible operations/hormones. Just look at the most "woke" country in the world: Sweden. In the early 2000 teenagers were granted hormones and operations...well now there are tons of adults who are not happy at all because they were going through a phase like many teens do. Not everyone ofcourse but my point is that young people are searching for an identity and they might change their mind as adults.
So Im for adults defining themselves however they want to (even though biologically you can't change your gender, a dna sample will always give your gender away xx or xy) but let teenagers/children explore alone without meddling and if they feel like being a woman/man/other as adults then so be it. I could not care less. Each to their own as long as you are not hurting anyone...

No, please find the words. I'm very interested to know why you don't think we should educate men to be accepting, inclusive and tolerant.

@SpidersAreShitheads 👏

Of course it’s not possible for human beings to change sex. Analysis of their chromosomes will always show their birth sex.

What can be changed is their appearance. Masculinising hormones make them look more masculine. That doesn’t mean they’ve changed sex.

I'm not particularly bothered by the toilets issue, but I’m sure you know perfectly well that males are generally stronger and far more likely to be violent or to commit sexual crimes than females, and are thus more of a potential danger to females than females are to males.

With a human approach!

For the most part women’s changing rooms are staffed by ….. women. And I don’t mean young girls. Pleasant, professional, but it is clear that their main function is to provide security rather than to hand out towels (also part of the job)

I’m here, OP. 👋

@poetryandwine so they are essentially security then? So if a man /male looking person comes along they tell them to go away as it's a female space ?

Or do they let anyone in then wander around checking for unwanted / sexual / pervy behaviour and deal with it?

Or have I misunderstood?

And how does it work with toilets that don't have permanent staff, or in schools etc?

I'm genuinely interested as was talking with my DS this week and wondering what the possible solutions might be.

And that biological male had reportedly told one of them that he was trying to get his girlfriend pregnant…

Ally here… everyone deserves to be accepted for who they are.
Also really don’t give a shit about mixed gender toilets and whatever. There are much bigger issues in this world.

I don’t consider myself anti trans, I think gender is made up bullshit and if people are happier living as what society has decided is the opposite gender to them they should do that.

If people I meet use unexpected pronouns I’m happy to respect that and use them.

But I think there a whole load of issues that we as a society need to iron out in a different way rather than bulldoze over women’s rights.

I personally don’t care at all who is peeing in the next cubicle to me, but I also appreciate that there are women less privileged than me that have very valid reasons to not want a male bodied person in there.

I think girls and women’s sports are already valued less than men’s and to allow people born male to take that from them is wrong.

For both of those I think there should be some fairer solution than just taking women’s space.

i think we should be taking better care of young people and supporting them to explore who they are, but also making sure they’re not getting medical interventions that might permanently alter their bodies until they’re mature enough to really appreciate the consequences of that.

I think women should be allowed to choose female bodied service providers for things like medical exams, personal care, rape crisis workers etc.

and I think it’s ridiculous to pretend there aren’t predatory men who will take advantage of any loophole to gain access to vulnerable women

What about women's sports?

Or women's refuges, rape counselling services, prisons?

Or sick or disabled women who want female only intimate care?

Me! Live and let live!

I work with children. 100% of our trans-presenting children (there are vanishingly few now, there were many more 5 years ago) are autistic. It’s my job to safeguard them by supporting their ND and making reasonable adjustments, rather than affirming their trans identity.

I believe you are autistic, OP, according to something you posted yesterday. There is an enormous correlation between trans identities and autism. Having worked with hundreds of such children, it’s my belief that trans is a presentation/manifestation of ND.

"You don’t get to decide how someone identifies themselves." No, but I get to decide whether or not I choose to accept and go along with their self-identification, especially when it infringes on my rights to single-sex sports, changing rooms, awards etc. Why do you feel the respect only has to go in one direction?

Me! Transpeople as a group have amongst the highest rates of suicide, domestic violence, depression….. being trans is HARD. People don’t choose to do it because they get off on being in the women’s loos.

And I don’t believe that letting other people have rights erodes women’s rights. There aren’t a finite amount of human rights to share - it’s not a cake.