To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

Yes, you and my daughter are rarities. But not so rare that there are only 105 of you in the UK! The poster who originally gave the statistics said that 6ft women are on the 99.7th centile. Doesn’t that mean that there are 3 in every thousand women?

Not at all! I said what if it’s like this in the future and you seem convinced I’m wrong. Genuine question how do you know

Not really, because we do know.

People pretending otherwise are certainly increasing opportunities for male people to harm female people though.

You are, of course, completely entitled to your opinion.

I guess I probably do accept trans women as women? So obviously with our different starting perspectives we're going to see things differently. I do see how the "female spaces" issue is nuanced. I guess I wonder if forcing genuine trans women into male spaces causes even more damage...

Well played. And yes - but would it be different if she’d handed the trust fund back and gone to work in the big sains

More damage to whom?

Why is damage to trans women more important than damage to women and girls?

This. I had a TRA who had just graduated in Applied Psychology (if memory serves), on a women’s group page, insisting to me that transwomen can’t be harmful as they are trans. And that’s that. Transwomen aren’t harmful and should be allowed in women’s spaces. End of discussion. I said my partner (male) wouldn’t harm anyone, ever, as much as I can be confident of that statement but he should never be allowed in women’s spaces either.

The common denominator being that they are both male, and until those stats on males being the more problematic sex class changes, all males have to stay out, as we can’t tell the goodies from the baddies. And males in general make some females feel uncomfortable due to their personal lived experiences.

She still didn’t get it though, like a few on this thread.

Op, can I ask you how you feel about these Trans women (who all still have their penises, by the way) :

Karen White - fully intact male, sent to prison for rape, housed in a female prison "she" goes on to rape 5 inmates.

Isla Bryson - a rapist sent to a female prison - his ex-wife confirmed that prior to "her" conviction, "she" had never once mentioned wanting to be a female.

Fallon Fox - a trans MMA fighter, who has now crushed two women's skulls

Lia Thomas - fully intact male, taking swimming titles from women - also exposing his penis in the changing rooms

Linsday Walker - playing on the women's team, "Lindsay" is 7ft tall

Trans women in women's bathrooms, dressed in short skirts, with their penises out and masturbating (there have been several cases of this).

Lesbians being attacked at Pride for not wanting "Lady dick"

All crimes committed by Trans women, being recorded as female crimes

And.....

How would you feel, if you had a daughter, who excelled at a sport, and you spent every weekend of her childhood, ferrying her to and from her sporting events. She gets better and better, and at age 18 is at the top of her game. Then a transwoman comes along and beats her every time. She cannot win anymore. Is that hunky dory?

I could go on, and on, and on.

You saying "I am pro trans", is so one dimensional, because you're not thinking about the HUGE implication this can have on REAL women. I know it's trendy to talk about Trans. But open your eyes and see the bigger picture, and how this impacts all women.

I don't think anyone objects to a Transwoman, who just wants to quietly live as a woman. I have seen some transwoman on TV who look very feminine, beautiful even, and I don't think they would scare me in a female bathroom, BUT it's the other type of Transwomen, like the ones mentioned above, that are a huge problem, along with the predatory men, who have no desire to be a woman, but who say they are "Susan" in order to access female only spaces, for voyeurism or worse. Sadly, mostly women cannot tell the difference between the two.

Just saying "I am pro trans" to be trendy, is very uneducated word vomit.

there it is - your “gotcha” moment. So you got exactly what you wanted- to prove your point . Exactly As I said.

you are not the least bit genuinely curious or interested in what I think or having a constructive debate.

If we evolve into a non mammalian species that reproduces differently, who knows.

Meanwhile, this is pointless pontificating when women are being harmed daily.

It was definitely in trending earlier on, but I think that was before the day shift logged in.

Well, I was recently informed that I'm pro-life cause i don't necessarily support abortion until the moment the fetus takes it first breath. So I have no idea if I'm pro or anti anything anymore.

Sorry, I was just looking at the centiles and the rarity comment. No, there can't only be 105 6' women, the maths has gone astray there I think!

Facilities are SEX-based, @HeadNorth , not 'gender' based. You may be happy for males with their penis and testicles intact to use the ladies, but 99% of other women and girls understandably are not. Just as a rape survivor, I don't want a male in the ladies spaces. If you're fine with males in your spaces, go use the male facilities. I think you'd soon change your mind. But you don't have the right to give my consent away, or the consent of other rape survivors and women and girls.

But thanks for saying you're a coolgirl who plays the handmaiden role and stands with men with penis and testicles in the ladies, than stand with us actual women, girls and rape survivors. Just keep going to the cemetary and taking a shit over the headstones of our foremother feminists. How proud you must feel.

im of the opinion that the increase in risk you’re all so upset about is small enough that it’s worth it. We had the same argument about women going to work, ‘they’ll get assaulted by all the office rapists’ and certainly some cultures believe that keeping women away from men as much as possible is the preferable stance. I don’t personally subscribe to that outlook

Can anyone ‘constructively debate’ fact against a belief system? You can say men can become women, or children can be born in the wrong body, until you’re blue in the face.

It can’t ever be true.

But most people would agree that that is not acceptable. Many of those same people would argue that transwomen should be on female wards.

How many women and children is it OK to harm before we say the increase in risk is too big? Are you willing to put a number on it?

Exactly. We all know. The trouble is that people are pretending not to and then insisting that we all do likewise.

I’m sorry aren’t you guys the ones that say ‘we can think about both’ I can totally chuck a few posts on mumsnet while caring about women’s rights (including transwomen)

And what about when women's interests are in direct conflict with trans women's interests?

Who takes priority?

Well exactly this. You have already decided what is true and what is not. You are not interested in a debate, so it’s impossible to engage you in one. It’s like trying to negotiate with a terrorist. Futile. I have learned this through attempting to. Occasionally on these threads there’s the odd person who does genuinely want to discuss things and that has been productive.

Nope! I’m vibes only

Your note about suicide statistics is interesting. I'm not sure I agree with it (as I do think that trans people ARE marginalized and I'm not sure acknowledging that adds to the danger) it but I'll certainly give it some thought, thanks.

How convenient.

We can all see right through people like you.