To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

Trans women can also have operations to modify the genitalia such as Vaginoplasty.

For someone who claims to know all about biology you know very little.

Not anti-trans. I don’t believe trans people’s rights trump safeguarding children or protecting women’s rights.

I also work with vulnerable children who are often questioning aspects of their identity, and I don’t believe putting the ‘trans’ label on them at a young age is morally right.

I'm not anti trans, but you can fuck right off with your cis woman bollocks.

I'm a woman.
A transwoman is a transwoman.
A transman is a transman.
A man is a man.

There are two sexes, and sex takes precedent over gender when it comes to sex segregation. You can be whatever gender you like, I really don't give a shit.

Gender is a harmful stereotype that exists in people’s imaginations.
To be a woman there is only 1 requirement - that is to be an adult human female.

Please can you explain how it is possible to grant transwomen the right to access women's single-sex services, spaces and sports without taking away women's rights to access single-sex services, spaces and sports?

In boxing and rugby too, because who cares if women suffer much higher rates of brain damage, right? They shouldn’t be playing mens spirts if they don’t want to get hurt…

I know someone who gets asked to leave women’s toilets because, although she is born female, identifies female, lives as a woman, she looks masculine. She doesn’t say anything because she feels embarrassed. This is unacceptable. You can’t ask people to show you their genitalia to police who is allowed in the toilet.

I have used cis as a descriptor.

I don’t think you can say you believe TWAW, until they’re not.

What if the sexual offender is legitimately trans and offended out of confusion before realising they had gender dysphoria and were trans? You think a male prison is the right place? What if it was a cis woman sexually assaulting another cis woman? Should that offender be put in a male prison away from potential victims?

And rape centres are female only… what about domestic violence refuges for women. Are men allowed there? What if their abusive husbands claim to be trans to gain entry?

The ONLY way to have any clarity on the position is to treat all trans people the same in every scenario. The same way good and bad men get treated the same. Because a “TWAW except…” approach throws up too many difficulties and inconsistencies.

What is it describing?

Trans women can also have operations to modify the genitalia such as Vaginoplasty.

If I carve my liver into the shape of a kidney it's still a liver. Vaginas are an organ, you can't construct one out of anything else - the best you can do is make something that looks a bit like one.

I would say I am pro transexual but it depends on the individual when it comes to transgender.

Me!
Thank you for starting this thread!

Being pro womens rights does not equal anti trans.

Trans women can also have operations to modify the genitalia such as Vaginoplasty.

They’re still men and it isn’t actually a vagina with all of its biology functions. It’s a very poor Imitation of one.

I agree. Loads of female toilets have male cleaners, nobody becomes hysterical over that or frankly even mentions it. There’s no campaign to ban male cleaners, nobody talking about women’s safe spaces being invaded by men. It just strikes me as hypocrisy, and hatred of trans people.

Ive seen male cleaners in countless women’s toilets, but I’ve never seen a trans person.

Do you honestly think we can't tell a male from a female? Is this how deep down the rabbit hole you are, in a bid to be a handmaiden?

Woman is the descriptor.

People can't change sex. So if you were born male, you're always going to be male. And as a society, we can't allow males into women's spaces, because that would mean eradicating women's spaces. That's completely discriminatory towards women and girls. We had to fight hard for those spaces and I'm not sure why any woman thinks it's a good idea to give them up.

I don't know if you want to call that 'anti trans' but that's not how I see it. If you're trans then live your best life. Just don't want males in women's spaces, that's all really.

What I'm getting from this thread is that unless you believe trans women are literal women and allowed into any space they like, you are a big vitriolic, transphobic, spewing hate, big meanie.

Despite reasonable arguments highlighting that males are the cuntier sex class and posses physiological advantages, backed up by stats and examples. And oh yeah, biological fact that can't be changed or argued with.

Yeah I can't take people who think like that seriously. You can believe what you like but you can't make others buy into your belief system.

Deluded fools.

You can be a trans ally and still believe passionately in preserving sex based rights. The two are not mutually exclusive, it just feels that way due to the debate being constantly derailed by extreme views on both sides. I absolutely refute that I am anti trans. As someone else up thread said, I base my opinions of people on their decency as a human being first and foremost. Treat everyone with dignity and respect. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't challenge self identification and the risk it poses to women only spaces, or the proliferation of transitions occurring in those who are neurodivergent teenagers and who later regret it. I don't believe it's anti trans to attempt to have a sensible discussion.

To a rape crisis center? Certainly Brighton has mixed Women plus Transwomen and trans only sessions. Obviously Women only sessions are not permitted.

I know the rape crisis provisions for males generally are poor, and no-one wants people to have no service. The issue is trans women insisting that they have access to, and control the access of others, to all sessions.

Surprise surprise! Another tricky question dodged.

Look, engaging with difficult questions and actually looking seriously at the issues surrounding the trans movement might actually make your stance more sturdy.

As it is, you’ve said nothing even remotely grown-up or respect-worthy; you’re all exclamations of disbelief and performative outrage. Grow up.

You’re at liberty not to care any more. Personally I don’t think it’s something to be proud of, not caring just because it hasn’t affected you personally. Would it be acceptable to say you don’t care about racism because it doesn’t affect you personally?
It's in effect saying you don’t care about the girls and women who are denied sporting success by the participation of transwomen, or those who miss out on "women's" awards or places on shortlists because they are given to transwomen, or those rape victims who were told to "reframe their trauma" if they objected to being counselled by or in a support group with transwomen.
I would have thought it’s pretty basic, if you’re interested in women's rights, to be interested in who counts as "women".

I have used cis as a descriptor.

So you're saying that you identify with the gender 'woman' - ie dresses and makeup and all other social stereo types placed on adult female humans?

Or do you mean something else? If so, what?