To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

I wish mumsnet had a clap emoji - I'll use this as a replacement I guess

Please will someone who thinks that TWAW tell me how men have managed to change sex?

About 1% of women are 6ft so that's highly unlikely a scenario.

I'm sick of this whataboutery. You're advocating for men who wear dresses and have a penis to be in a womens space but bio women can't.

This. To add, I don't want to shower in the same room, use the same toilet facilities as biological males either. I am quite happy to call someone a female name and I will respect their wish to be seen as a woman. Will I ever believe that person is actually a woman. No of course I won't. It's blindingly obvious to everyone that they aren't.

@Lilieee I'm not sure how much time you've spent listening to trans women talk about themselves, but for a lot of them have mentioned the idea of being sexually dominated is part of the attraction of being a woman. Maybe look up Andrea Long Chu... or you could dig around on Reddit or the more X rated sites of the internet. I'm not sure how much I can say on here without getting deleted.

You may as well have asked “Who is in favour of big Pharma and telling lies to vulnerable people?”

I suspect your post isn’t genuine anyway.

Very simple.

What’s even more simple is that transwomen are not, never have been and never will be women. They are men and will always remain so because human beings cannot change sex. It’s a literal fact not a matter of opinion.

Ban disagreement? No debate is over, OP, I'm sorry.

Women also encompass gender, not only sex.

Only around 0.1% of women are 6 foot or above. It's estimated around 0.5% of women are trans. I wouldn't design a policy around the 0.0005% who are six foot AND trans.

But for that person, she should be legally entitled to use female spaces, but presumably she would feel more comfortable in a gender neutral space.

Somehow I doubt this very, very much. Women don't do that in public. You're describing a solely male behaviour.

Secondly, how does one masturbate at the same time as washing hands? Does she have three hands, instead of two?

I'm sorry, that wasn't clear enough. I'm talking about me, myself. So for example if you talk about me, I want to be a she/her, not a they. I'm not referring to other people of other genders. Others can be gendered how they please.

But you knew innately at 11 years old that this person was male 😂
What a shame your mum gaslit you by making you deny the reality of your own eyes.

Actually, the male attendee of the women only group is not necessarily the one at fault in this situation.

It is not actually known whether the male attendee in question genuinely identifies as a trans woman or not. They allegedly made no attempt to present as female and did not speak during the session.

What we do know is that when "Sarah" spoke privately to the rape crisis organisation after the session, to ask if there was a different group she could join which was strictly female only, she was told no. All their services are trans inclusive which means that anyone who self identifies as a woman is free to join any women's group. The rape crisis organisation refused to countenance designating even one of their groups women only, and suggested that "Sarah" seek support elsewhere. This being Brighton, there were no other organisations in the area which didn't have exactly the same policy.

"Sarah" is now bringing legal action to try to require providers of rape crisis services to offer the single sex support that many women need. Astonishingly, instead of just saying, "Actually, we hear you. You're a rape survivor and you're telling us what you and many other women need, we're a rape crisis organisation and we should be listening to you", they are defending the litigation on ideological grounds. Two male solicitors from the law firm Reed Smith are acting for them pro bono. Imagine you're a male lawyer and you're allowed to spend a certain amount of time doing pro bono work and ensuring women don't have access to single sex rape crisis support is the cause you choose to spend your time on. Astonishing.

In the meantime, "Sarah" has attempted to set up her own unofficial support group for female rape survivors. Trans activists got wind of this and some of them sent emails to every conceivable venue in Brighton asking them not to agree to host the group because they were anti trans bigots.

Meanwhile in Scotland, JK Rowling has set up and is solely funding a female only rape crisis organisation, which is inclusive of trans men and female non binary people as well as women, and will also offer trans women telephone support before redirecting them to more suitable services if they need face to face support. Ever since it was announced, trans activists have been trying to force the centre to accept trans women or be shut down.

So who is the oppressed and vulnerable minority in this situation, do you think?

Seriously? You would be happy for your daughter change in the same room as Karen White?

Yes the comparison between anti trans and gay rights and racism is a tried and tested argument - it’s literally straight out of (was it Dentons) how to fight for transrights and shame people into silence playbook. It’s a nonsensical comparison

what gets my goat though is the use of vulnerable women - DV and rape victims, women in prison, everyone’s 12 year old daughter, as cloaks for what seems to me a bunch of relatively wealthy and powerful women having a tantrum about the idea of having to share a specific type of power that the class ‘women’ has gained.

How dare you. If you opened your eyes to this subject you will see literally hundreds of stories of women and girls being harmed due to the feelings of men/boys being prioritised over them. A wander over to Tribunal Tweets would be a good start. Hear about the women who have been bullied out of jobs. Go to shewon.org and read about all the women and girls denied sports honours as males had taken them, speak to the mothers of severely disabled women who have to check their daughters are not been given same “gender” intimate care. Read the Womens Rights Network report on rapes in hospital wards. Read Trans Widow Voices. Read Keep Prisons Single Sex for the stats of violent males in womens prisons.

But yeah, just a few wealthy powerful women have a bee in their bonnet about nothing. 🙄

Why are spaces segregated by sex in the first place? Clearly trans women want this to continue as they want to use women's spaces.

So why is this important?

???

I'm not even going to give this one a proper reply.

Wtf are you talking about? I NEVER MENTIONED transwomen. I said MEN.

Btw,transwomen ARE men. They have penis and testicles, ffs!

What is it that you don't understand, about that?

Please will someone who thinks that TWAW tell me how men have managed to change sex?

This has been asked on hundreds or even thousands of MN threads and I’ve yet to read an explanation that makes even a modicum of sense.

Here we go again, people using trans cis, woke and lots of other abbreviations and I have no idea what they mean nor do I care, along with millions of other I suspect, why dont they just get on with their own lives and leave us alone to get on and not interfere with ours .

A genuine question for those who are gender critical. If you were using a bathroom and a 6 ft tall, breaded stocky male dressed person came in, what would you assume?

Given that in the UK, a 6' tall woman is above the 99.7the centile (RCPCH), and therefore there are only roughly 105 of them in the UK, and 0.5% of people identify as trans (ONS), should I meet this unicorn, I think I would be surprised.

Personally, knowing a couple of women on testosterone, I think there are subconscious tells around voice and movement which would make it clear they're not actually male. Plus of course, being a female, she's statistically also a significantly lower risk anyway.

They will dodge this question until the end of time.

That's a non argument though isn't it. Nobody can force you to find a penis attractive, or short hair, or long hair, or tall or short. Whatever we find attractive is inate to ourselves. I like a man taller than I am, does that make me short phobic? Nope. It's a personal preference which I'm absolutely entitled to surely.