To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

Having one’s penis inverted to line a cavity in one’s body does not make it a vagina. I know people like David Lammy thinks a man can magically grow a cervix, but trust me, he’s wrong.
This type of surgery is body modification - that’s all, it doesn’t change one’s sex. If a man had penile cancer and had to have it removed, would that make him a woman?

lets just run with your argument - define the gender of woman (if you think it’s distinct from their sex). Presumably then you agree that transwomen haven’t changed to the sex of women and therefore should not be in sex segregated spaces like toilets, changing room, prisons, sports etc.

How do you differentiate sex and gender.?

They will usually put a sign on the door warning women that a male cleaner is present so she can elect not to use that space temporarily.

90% don't though.

Loads of female toilets have male cleaners, nobody becomes hysterical over that or frankly even mentions it.

You mean apart from the warning sign that's generally up, warning women that a man might be in there?

Trans women can also have operations to modify the genitalia such as Vaginoplasty.

Still male genitalia where the appearance has been surgically altered. There's no actual functionality in any way similar to a vagina.

I’ve only ever seen signs that say males clean these toilets, so you wouldn’t be able to use them at all.

Can you define ‘woman gender’ then, so I know if I am one of not?

No it doesn't

I don't think anyone on MN is anti-trans.

Anti-trans means "hates trans people". MNers certainly don't. MNers don't want vulnerable people to be hurt or abused.

However, you probably think anti-trans means "disagrees with" you

'anti-trans' = anti women's rights, equality and child safeguarding?

Because what else is that silly phrase supposed to mean?

I am all for people living their lives however they choose, within the boundaries of respecting other people's rights. I am emphatically not for rampant sexism, or subordinating women in law to give men more freedoms in self expression and excluding women from women's spaces so that men can use them. Male supremacism isn't really my thing. Nor is medically harming and sterilising children. If you want to call that 'anti-trans' and make it sound like a bad thing? Well you do you.

On the issue of biological men however they present or identify in female spaces, and biological women however they present or identify in male spaces. I think they are different arguments.

Men commit 98% of sexual and violent crimes so we know that women are at a much greater risk of harm from men, than men are from women. And that's why in my opinion no biological man regardless of what surgery he has had or medication/hormones he is taking should be in female only spaces.

Also, if men were to say they do not want biological women however they present or identify in their male spaces I would fully support that. We either have single sex spaces or we don't.

What is gender

NO.

Gender is nothing more than regressive stereotypes that have been imposed on women and men by society.

Feminists fought for decades to LIBERATE women from gender stereotypes, and now people who consider themselves progressive want to DEFINE women as gender stereotypes rather than female people, for no other reason than to allow male people to call themselves women and access women's spaces whether the female users of those spaces consent or not.

It feels as though there are 2 different battles going on: the matter of living in a strictly gendered world , and the matter of gradually eroding women and their rights.

There's a third battle going on, which is the battle for honest evidence about what's the best/safest medical and social care for children and young people with gender issues. That shouldn't be a political battle at all, medical evidence should be bedrock for everyone. But it has been sacrificed between the other two battles.

Well said. This is exactly how I feel.

My last few jobs had unisex toilets - genuinely, what's the difference?

I am also on the fence and feel people should live however makes them happy

but I too am concerned about the erosion of women and their rights. You cannot change what you were born as and that’s that however you identify. I also cannot get away with trying to change female language such as the carry on about an NHS board wanting to change breast feeding to chest feeding and some trans women wanting to be allowed smears, I understand this will be a small minority of this group but it does not help the overall cause. They shouldn’t be in women’s prisons either

I am not anti trans and find the FWR board wierdly obsessed with trans people under the guise of 'women's rights'. I have a family member who is trans so I am empathic to the struggles they face and how harsh and judgemental the real world can be, as well as the online world.

I am happy for transwomen to use facilities that align with their gender. I understand that there are areas such as sport, healthcare and prisons where sex may be relevant, but these are by exception issues and in day to day life I don't think this is a great big issue. I would rather stand shoulder to shoulder with the transwomen I know than the aggressive anti trans posters of Mumsnet.

… to you. She’s not here to debate you. She didn’t ask for your opinion.

A vagina is an organ, please don’t tell me you think surgeons can make actual organs?! An inverted penis or bit of bowel is not a vagina, and certainly does not change someone’s biological sex. Dear god!

You can believe anything you wish, including unicorns are real. It doesn't make it so.

A transwoman with a cock and balls, is not a woman.

It's that simple.

@FrenchFancie
Have you actually stood next to a male-identifying female? The one thing testosterone can’t do is increase your height. The overwhelming majority of TMs are of average height for a female, they look like small men - so a 6’ TM would be highly unusual.

This type of post baffles me too.

Why are you thankful? Are you thanking OP for making a meaningless statement and then making herself (and presumably you if you’re team OP) look increasingly ridiculous as she’s unable to answer any difficult questions or make any robust points?

Things that didn’t happen 😂